3:19 What does Church Of Christ mean and who would like to begin in our discussion today?
4:33 What is the Lord Jesus Christ to the church? What position does he occupy in relation to the Church?
10:37 If people are truly serving the Lord Jesus Christ Brothers, well, what should they really be seen doing?
17:57 Are we thinking that our Lord Jesus Christ is a common man like we are? Are we saying that Jesus Christ our Lord is an ordinary man, just like us?
22:55 Is there any verse in the Bible at all, where the apostle Peter declares, or teaches that Jesus Christ is a true God?
23:44 What is that truth being referred to there, that our Lord Jesus Christ spoke, and which he had heard from the true God?
27:36 What about in the Catholic Church? Is the Lord Jesus Christ, the one being obeyed or followed?
30:18 What laws do the members of the Roman Catholic Church actually obey?
36:52 Does the Bible inform us who’s doctrine it is to forbid marriage, according to the apostles?
38:48 What do Catholic authorities themselves confess, regarding confession?
43:26 What is another basis in the Bible, which shows us why we’re very sure that the Catholic practice of confession of their sins against God to the priests is really something against the teaching of the Bible?
48:04 What do Catholic authorities admit regarding the doctrine of the Trinity?
50:00 Does the New Testament support that teaching of Trinity?
51:30 Why are we so sure that you know the trinity doctrine that there are three persons in one god is unscriptural in the Bible? Who is the true God?
[Show open]
[On-screen logo graphic]
INC International Edition
Brother Johnny Martin: Hello, I’m Johnny Martin and this is the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. Our discussion today is going to be an answer to the question is the Catholic Church, the true Church Of Christ. The Roman Catholic Church is said to be the oldest institution in the Western world. Today there are more than a billion members of the Roman Catholic Church in the world spread across six continents with particular concentrations in southern Europe, the United States, the Philippines and the countries of Central and South America. The current head of the Roman Catholic Church is known as Pope Francis, its clergy and defenders have claimed that it is the one true church that belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ. Well, is that true? Well, that’s what we’re going to be talking about today in the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition.
[On-screen logo graphic]
INC International Edition
Brother Johnny Martin: Dear friends, joining us today are Brother Jojo Bayani in Los Angeles, Brother Solomon Joves in San Francisco, and Brother Greg Worthen
in London.
Brother Johnny Martin: Hello, Brothers.
Brothers: Hello, Brother Johnny. Hi, Brother Johnny.
Brother Johnny Martin: Brothers, we know that there are a lot of religions in the world today. They’re the so-called world’s great religions like Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Christianity. And among religious groups have presented or introduced themselves as being Christian. Well, people can see an abundance of church organizations that claim to belong to the Lord Jesus Christ. Among them is the Roman Catholic Church. Well, let’s check out this brief video about the Roman Catholic Church.
[Video starts]
[Source: YouTube]
Narrator: Having a true pope to guide people through the Great Apostasy, which makes this apostasy so devastating to so many. The truth remains that the Catholic Church is the one Church founded by Christ, to which all must belong in order to be saved, and that this church still exists and a remnant of Catholics who maintain the infallible teachings of the true Pope throughout history, St. Athanasius.
“Even if the true Church of Christ were reduced to a handful of true believers and one true priest, they would remain the true Church of Christ on earth.”
The truth is that God has not abandoned his Catholic Church. It remains the immaculate bride of Christ, and the gates of hell will never prevail against this Church that Jesus founded upon Peter the rock. Pope Virgilios, a second Council of Constantinople, 553.
“…we bear in mind what was promised about the Holy Church and Him who said the gates of hell will not prevail against it (by these we understand the death-dealing tongues of heretics)…” Pope Innocent the third AS exemplar December 18 1208.
“By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved.”
[Video ends]
Brother Johnny Martin: Now, Brothers, we know that Catholic priests and apologists claim that the Roman Catholic Church is the one true church that belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ. Well, is that true? Is the Catholic Church the true Church Of Christ? Well, you know, in the first place, Brothers, what does Church Of Christ mean and who would like to begin in our discussion today?
Brother Jojo Bayani: Brother Johnny, and the rest of our Brothers, if I may jump in first. Allow me to read to you from First Corinthians chapter 12, verse 27, it says here:
Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
[I Corinthians 12:27 NKJV]
Brother Jojo Bayani: So what does Church Of Christ mean? It means the body of Christ. We should take note of something that Apostle Paul said in that verse. There is something that is singular and something that is plural. What is singular is the body, the church that belongs to our Lord Jesus Christ. And what is plural are the members or the parts that belong to that body or the church. So what does this church of Christ mean? It means the body of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, Brothers, you know, that will lead us to this question. Some may be wondering, well, how can we really be certain that the body of our Lord Jesus Christ has many members, well, really is the church? And furthermore, what is the Lord Jesus Christ to the church? What position does he occupy in relation to the Church?
Brother Solomon Joves: Brother Johnny, if I may, the answers to questions are found actually in the Bible again, in Colossians 1:18. This is what we can read:
And He is the head of the body, the church…
[Colossians 1:18 NKJV]
Brother Solomon Joves: Apostle Paul clearly explained here Brother Johnny and dear friends, that the body of our Lord Jesus Christ is the Church. He also shows the position that the Lord Jesus Christ occupies in relation to that Church, which is His body, Christ is its head. Therefore, the true Church is the body of Christ, of which he is the head. So any church claiming to be the true church, but presents somebody else as its head, other than our Lord Jesus Christ is not the true church. We can safely conclude that that church is a false church. The church that does not belong to God, and does not belong to our Lord Jesus Christ.
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Solomon Joves
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: Now, Brothers, we read a couple of verses here, where you find the Apostle Paul talking about the church. The church is the body of the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ is the head of the church. By the way, does the Apostle Paul also provide us in the pages of the Bible what is the name of the church built by the Lord Jesus Christ? You know, some might be wondering, well, there’s a lot of churches in the world with a lot of different names. Well, does the Bible actually give the name of the Church founded by the Lord Jesus Christ?
Brother Greg Worthen: If I may, on that one Brother Johnny, even from the video, we saw that, of course, those proponents of the Catholic Church say that it’s the Roman Catholic Church. We felt we’ve known so far, it’s the body of Christ. So how would the apostles call the body that’s headed by our Lord Jesus Christ? Well, of course, they give the answer as what they preached. Going here to Acts of the Apostles 20, the verses 28, from the Lamsa translation for clarity, this is stated:
Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers to feed the church of Christ, which he has purchased with His blood.
[Acts 20:28 Lamsa]
Brother Greg Worthen: The apostles are very clear in their teaching, that the body that’s headed by our Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the church that was founded by our Lord Jesus Christ, is none other than the Church Of Christ or in the Filipino language, the Iglesia Ni Cristo. So any church that claims to be of Christ, that claims to be established or founded by Christ has to bear his name. And we don’t see that in the name of the Catholic Church, we don’t even find the name of Christ. In the name of the Catholic Church, we’re in what we can read from the Bible, as what the apostles preached, the name of the church that Christ built, that he is the head of, and that He redeemed with His blood is none other than the Church Of Christ. So as Brother Solomon pointed to a moment ago, any church that would claim to be of Christ, but they don’t bear the name Church Of Christ, is not in accordance with biblical truths that the Bible has taught us?
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Greg Worthen
London, England
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: So, Brother Greg, let me make sure that I’m understanding the point you’re making right now: the Bible doesn’t contain the words, the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church that can’t be read in the Bible. But what can be read in the Bible is Church Of Christ or in the Filipino language that would be Iglesia Ni Cristo? Am I correct?
Brother Greg Worthen: Right. Right. You can go from Genesis all the way to Revelation, and you’re not going to find the name in any chapter or verse that says the name of the Catholic Church. What you will find there, not only of course, here in Acts 20:20, but in other versions and verses of the holy scriptures is the church of Christ.
Brother Johnny Martin: That’s a very good point, Brother Greg. Now Brothers, you know, what are the people who are members of the true Church Of Christ gladly, willingly do since they now accept, and have faith that the Lord Jesus is really their head?
Brother Jojo Bayani: Well, Brother Johnny, the members of the body or the church, of which our Lord Jesus Christ, is the head, they do something specific, they do something to the tee. And I’d like to read that here in John chapter 10 and the verses 27. Our Lord Jesus Christ, of course, is the speaker of the verse. He said,
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Jojo Bayani
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
[John 10:27 NKJV]
Brother Jojo Bayani: And so our Lord Jesus Christ here is speaking to the people that belong to him. He calls them my sheep. Who are the sheep of our Lord Jesus Christ? The very ones that belong to His body or to His church. And what is it that our Lord Jesus Christ said about his sheep? He said, They hear my voice, and after hearing his voice, what is it that the sheep of Christ do? He says, they follow me. And so we understand it is but natural and fitting at the same time that the people who belong to Christ are the sheep of our Lord Jesus Christ, they follow Him. In other words, they obey His teachings. They obey whatever He commands them to do. And so the people who belong to Christ, that is a specific task that they truly adhere to. They follow the voice of our Lord Jesus Christ, they follow His teachings or His commands.
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, you know, Brothers, others may say that, well, they’re also serving the Lord Jesus Christ. You know, if people are truly serving the Lord Jesus Christ Brothers, well, what should they really be seen doing?
Brother Solomon Joves: Well, Brother Johnny, if you may, to reinforce what Brother Jojo mentioned earlier, indeed, obedience and following what the Lord Jesus Christ commands is very important. And we can find that here again, once again in the Bible, in John 12:26, where it says:
If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My father will honor.
[John 12:26 NKJV]
Brother Solomon Joves: In this verse that we have read, the Lord Jesus Christ shows us that those who serve Him, will follow him, and how can we prove that we follow the Lord Jesus Christ, we obey his teachings and his commandments. So if one claims to be a true disciple or follower of our Lord Jesus Christ, or claims to belong to the church that truly follows and serves the Lord Jesus, they must abide by the commandments, and the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. They can’t claim to be true servants of Christ, they cannot claim to really follow the Lord Jesus Christ if they ignore His teachings, and instead, pay attention to or heed or follow other people’s instructions and commandments. Because the true members of the Church established and built by our Lord Jesus Christ, follow the teachings of the Lord through their loyalty and the fact that they serve the Lord through their obedience.
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Solomon Joves
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: Yes, I wanted to… go ahead, Brother Greg.
Brother Greg Worthen: So there’s a couple of points we need to make clear to our audience. First of all, of course, one mark of the true Church Of Christ is that it bears the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in the manner it was preached by the apostles, it is the Church Of Christ. But that’s not the only characteristic of the true Church Of Christ. Meaning, just because the church has the name Church of Christ, it’s the true one. Rather, as pointed out by Brother Solomon and Brother Jojo. The fact that all the teachings that are upheld, in the true Church Of Christ conform also to what the Bible teaches. And I think that’s an important point to make for the sake of our audience.
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Greg Worthen
London, England
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: Okay, so true church, called Church Of Christ. True Church follows the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But you know, there are others that criticize Iglesia Ni Cristo, and one of the constant criticisms that are hurled at us is this. Well, the Church Of Christ, we are members of what cannot be the true church. It’s just a church of men, because we follow Jesus Christ, whom we firmly believe is a man and God. Well, is that the case that the Iglesia Ni Cristo is just a church of mere men? Who would like to address this question, Brothers?
Brother Greg Worthen: Well, if you don’t mind, I’d like to take that one simply because of my comments earlier. What we follow in the Church Of Christ, are the teaching of Christ and His apostles. For example, and that particular argument or that particular criticism of the Church, should be answered by the Lord Himself. And for that, we’ll go to the testimony here of the Lord, do we just follow man? What is the state of being of our Lord Jesus Christ, he’ll explain John 8:40, the voice and teaching of the Lord Himself.
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Greg Worthen
London, England
Minister of the Gospel
I am a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God, but you’re trying to kill me. Abraham did nothing like that.
[John 8:40 NCV]
Brother Greg Worthen: Our Lord Jesus Christ, here is the speaker. And how does Christ identify or introduce himself? Christ clearly says, I am a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. So Christ recognizes Himself as a man as he truly was. And that is what we members of the Church Of Christ recognize about Christ. We’re not belittling Christ when we don’t recognize Him for something more than he is. Christ introduced Himself as a man, members of the true Church of Christ recognize Christ as a man in his state of being. And so those who would say, well, Christ has dual nature, or Christ has this or that, that goes beyond the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ. They cannot be in the true Church of Christ, even though they may bear that name, or copy that name, because it does not conform to the teaching and doctrine that Christ taught, and that, of course, are upheld by those sheep or True Followers of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Brother Johnny Martin: You know, Brothers, it’s very interesting to note, since Brother Greg shared with us that particular passage of the Bible where Jesus Christ Himself said, I am a man. Well, even the current Pope of the Catholic Church accepts and teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ is a man, and not a spirit, which is what God’s state of being is. Check out this brief video, everybody.
[Video starts]
[Source: ROMEREPORTS.COM]
Jesus is not a spirit! Jesus is a person, a man,
[Video ends]
[On-screen logo graphic]
INC International Edition
Brother Johnny Martin: Now look at that video Brothers, where the Pope is actually saying the Pope, the head of the Roman Catholic Church, is actually stating the Lord Jesus Christ is a man. And we would accept that particular say, because that is exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ said. And that is exactly what we believe inside the Church Of Christ or the Iglesia Ni Cristo.
Brother Greg Worthen: Yes, which is going to contradict basically what that 1 billion Catholics have believed in all of their life. Which is why it’s important that of course, people continue to listen. And that’s what we want inside the church. Just take the time to listen with an open heart and an open mind.
Brother Solomon Joves: And one of the things Brother Johnny that I would like to comment on, is that you did mention and this is common knowledge to many Catholics, that the head of the Catholic Church is the Pope. And just like what we discussed earlier in our studies, one way by which we can determine what the true, which among the churches established today is the true church that belongs to God and Christ is that it has or recognizes only the Lord Jesus Christ as the head of that church and any other church that presents somebody else other than Christ as its head cannot be the true church that belongs to Christ and God.
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Solomon Joves
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Jojo Bayani: And Brother Johnny, Brother Solomon, and Brother Greg, I don’t know if you picked up on what the Pope has said, it just seems that for almost 2000 years now, they have been teaching that our Lord Jesus Christ is God. And then all of a sudden, this Pope says that he is not a spirit, rather, our Lord Jesus Christ is man, a human being. That’s a very interesting and a very important point to make, I would think.
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, Brothers, you know, yes, we’ve seen the verse of the Bible that talks about where our Lord Jesus Christ says, ‘I am a man’ but you know, there are those who are wondering, what exactly do we believe about the Lord Jesus Christ when we believe that he is a man? Are we thinking that our Lord Jesus Christ is a common man like we are? Are we saying that Jesus Christ our Lord is an ordinary man, just like us? Even though we believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is a man, what do we believe further about the Lord Jesus Christ?
Brother Jojo Bayani: Well, Brother Johnny, this is what we believe about our Lord Jesus Christ, what the Bible says, and what the Bible teaches about Him. If you will allow me to read from the book of Acts, chapter 2, verse 22, from the New Century Version of the Bible, this is what it says:
“People of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus from Nazareth was a very special man. God clearly showed this to you by the miracles, wonders and signs he did through Jesus. You all know this, because it happened right here among you.
[Acts 2:22 New Century Version]
Brother Jojo Bayani: So we see the apostles, giving us a very important teaching with regard to our Lord Jesus Christ. Is our Lord Jesus Christ, a man and a human being. Absolutely. But he is he an ordinary human being like us? Absolutely not. Because what did the apostles state about our Lord Jesus Christ? He is a very special man. How special was he? He performed miracles and wonders and signs. And please take note, the Apostle said, it was actually God who performed these miracles and wonders and signs through that very special man, our Lord Jesus Christ. If I may also point out that different verses of the Bible show how special of a man or a human being our Lord Jesus Christ is. In Matthew 3:17, it is described as Christ being the son of God. In Acts 2:36, He is Lord. In Acts 5:31, our Lord Jesus Christ is the Savior, the Savior of the world. In First Timothy 2:5, the Bible says there is only one mediator between God and man, and that is the man, Jesus Christ. And in Ephesians 1:20-22, the Bible describes that he was exalted to the point where his name was given the distinction of being the name above every other name. And so is our Lord Jesus Christ human, is he a man? Yes. Is he an ordinary man like us? Oh, no, absolutely not. He is a very special man with many attributes and qualities, not found in any other human being.
Brother Johnny Martin: So Brothers, let me make sure we understand this. When it comes to the true Church Of Christ, they recognize that the Lord Jesus Christ is a human being, not an ordinary human being but a human being, who has very special qualities that were granted to him by the Almighty God, that’s the true Church Of Christ. So any church that claims to be the true Church Of Christ, but they’re not believing that our Lord Jesus Christ is a man in nature, who has special qualities granted to him by the true God, and then teaches that Jesus Christ is God well, that religion or church cannot be the true Church Of Christ.
Brother Greg Worthen: Yes, what’s interesting to know, Brother Johnny, real real quick here is the fact that the Speaker of that Acts of the Apostles 2:22, was Apostle Peter. And even during his time, Apostle Peter, as a member of the true Church Of Christ, was teaching the true doctrine about Christ, that He is a man in his state of being. So even if the Catholic Church would say, well, Peter, is that foundation. Peter is this to the Catholic Church, then they should have been teaching all along what the Apostle Peter was teaching, when he was teaching here. That Jesus is, of course, a man, a very special man, in his state of being, which, as members of the true Church Of Christ, we believe in and uphold.
Brother Johnny Martin: Now, Brother Greg, let me ask you this question. So some might be wondering, well, you know, the Catholic Church regards the apostle Peter as their very first pope. And you pointed out here in Acts 2:22, how the apostle Peter is the one speaking saying very clearly, ‘Jesus is a very special man.’ Now, for clarification. Is there any verse in the Bible at all, where the apostle Peter declares, or teaches that Jesus Christ is a true God? Is there any verse like that where the Apostle Peter says those words?
Brother Greg Worthen: There is no verse in the Bible where we can read that Apostle Paul is teaching that Jesus is the true God, because that’s not what he learned from our Lord Jesus Christ. And that’s not what he’s going and just apostles, doctrine or teaching of Christ.
Brother Johnny Martin: Right. Not just the possible Paul but specifically the apostle Peter, no teaching from the Apostle Peter in the Bible, where he says, Jesus Christ IS TRUE GOD and am I correct?
Brother Greg Worthen: Yes, you are correct. There is no teaching that the Apostle Peter is going to teach that Jesus is the true God because that’s not what he learned from our Lord Jesus Christ. What he taught is what he learned.
Brother Johnny Martin: Yes. Thank you, Brother Greg. Now, let’s go back to what we were looking at earlier to dear Brothers. You know, Jesus said, He spoke the truth that he heard from God. Now, what is that truth being referred to there, that our Lord Jesus Christ spoke, and which he had heard from the true God?
Brother Solomon Joves: Brother Johnny, if I may, that was explained by the Lord Jesus Christ here in John 17:17.
Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
[John 17:17 NKJV]
Brother Solomon Joves: In this instance, our Lord Jesus Christ was praying to the Father or our Almighty God. Our Lord Jesus Christ says that the truth is the word of God. Therefore what our Lord Jesus Christ heard, received and proclaimed and preached to people was the truth are the words of our Lord God. And where can we find the words of our Lord God written or recorded? They are recorded in The Holy Scriptures or the Bible.
Brother Johnny Martin: Now, Brothers for further clarification on this, is there any specific passage of the Scripture aside from the one that Brother Solomon just read where our Lord Jesus Christ, made it very clear that what he was proclaiming, when he was teaching to the people, it wasn’t like a doctrine that he just made up on his own. But it’s really a doctrine that he learned or received from the true God. Can we read anything like that in the Bible?
Brother Solomon Joves: Again, Brother Johnny, if I may, it’s recorded here once more in John, chapter 7, verse 16. This time, this is what we could read.
Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
[John 7:16 NKJV]
Brother Solomon Joves: Dear friends, the Lord Jesus Christ shows us in this first that we have just read that the doctrines he taught were not his own, but rather, they are the doctrines of the one who sent him or commissioned him. And who sent our Lord Jesus Christ as the greatest messenger, none other than the one true God in heaven. Therefore, the Lord Jesus Christ, being a messenger of Our Lord God preached or proclaimed or taught, not his own teachings, but the teachings of the Lord God who commissioned and sent him. So if there’s any religious leader today, who would teach and convince and persuade its members or his followers or adherence to obey teachings that are different or worse, contrary to what our Lord Jesus Christ taught, then that religious leader is not a messenger of God. And the religion he or she represents is not the true church that belongs to God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. So he, along with his religion should be rejected because it would not lead man to the attainment of salvation and eternal life.
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, Brothers, let’s go back to the question that we began this episode with. Is the Catholic Church, the true Church Of Christ. You know, that’s really one of the big religions in the world. Well, they’re friends, we’re going to address that question, and many more as the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition continues. Please stay with us.
[On-screen logo graphic]
INC International Edition
Brother Johnny Martin: Welcome back, everyone to the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. We’re going to continue with our very interesting discussion today regarding the Roman Catholic Church and the true Church Of Christ. Now, we all know that the Roman Catholic Church is claimed to be the one true Church Of Christ. And we saw from the Bible that when it comes to the true Church Of Christ, the one being followed is the Lord Jesus Christ. Now this is our question, Brothers, what about in the Catholic Church? Is the Lord Jesus Christ, the one being obeyed or followed?
Brother Greg Worthen: I think what’s important here Brother Johnny, as we continue on in our discussion is we don’t we won’t give our opinion. For example, regarding your question, I think it’s important we allow the Catholic Church to answer and we can do that by way of reading a book entitled questions of Catholics answered. This is written by a Catholic priest named Winfred Herbst. On page 475, he stated this:
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Greg Worthen
London, England
Minister of the Gospel
[Questions of Catholics Answered, Winfrid Herbst, Page 475]
“…the Pope and the bishops are the established rulers of the Church, and we owe respect and obedience to them; and not only to them, but to all those appointed by them, such as our pastors. To all so appointed by them over us, we owe respect and obedience…”
Brother Greg Worthen: According to this Catholic priest, there are some things that we need to take note of in his statement. And first of all, we know that in the Catholic church based on a statement, there are appointed rulers that lead the church. Secondly, of course, the established rulers are the Pope’s and the bishops. Third, it is the responsibility and the duty of the members of the Catholic Church, to follow the Pope’s and the bishops, as well as those who are appointed by them. In this case, for example, even their pastors. What we should take note of Brother Johnny, panelist and viewers, is the fact that there’s no mention here of our Lord Jesus Christ. Remember, we read earlier that the sheep of Christ follow him. In this case, there’s no mention of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is why we can conclude that if there are people who are teaching to follow people and not the teachings and doctrines of our Lord Jesus Christ, or Christ Himself, then that organization, that church is not the true Church Of Christ.
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, hold on Brother Greg, Brothers, you know, some might go well, wait a minute. You know, the members of the Catholic Church are following their pastors, bishops, and Pope. Well, it’s because what these men have been teaching to the members of the Catholic Church are the doctrines of the Lord Jesus Christ. And what they’ve been teaching are the laws of the Almighty God. That’s why they’re following them, those individuals, you know, Brothers, so this is our question, what laws do the members of the Roman Catholic Church actually obey?
Brother Jojo Bayani: Now, if I may, Brother Johnny take this one, and let me first repeat what Brother Greg said just a while ago? We won’t answer that question. Let’s allow the Catholic Church to answer that question. Allow me to read from a book entitled, My Catholic faith, written by a Catholic priest by the name of Louis La Ravoire Morrow, here on page 95. And I quote:
[My Catholic Faith, Louis La Ravoire Morrow, Page 95]
“This right to make laws is exercised by the bishops, the successors of the apostles, and especially by the Pope, who as the successor of the chief of the apostles, Saint Peter, has the right to make laws for the universal church. Number one, the pope can make and unmake laws for the entire Church; his authority is supreme and unquestioned. Every Bishop, every priest, every member of the Church is subject to him. Number two, laws are also made by each Bishop for his own diocese, and by a general council of Bishops for the entire church. These last do not have any efficacy without the approval of the Pope. The Pope is above a general council..
From time to time as necessity arises, the Pope through the different Roman Congregations issues decrees, laws or regulations for the welfare of the Church. Catholics are obliged to obey these laws.”
Brother Jojo Bayani: As we can see, from this book that we just read, the Catholic priest is saying something that’s very important for us all to understand. And what is the Catholic priest saying? He says that laws are being made by certain people inside the Catholic Church, by the bishops, councils of bishops, and especially by the Pope. And how is it that they regard the Pope? Well, they regard the pope as someone who is the supreme authority, and if I may say, and quote once again, from their book, ‘The Pope is someone that they consider supreme or unquestioned,’ you can’t question what he says, and so you can’t question the laws that he makes. Another point to make is that these people are making laws and they are obliging or obligating every member of the Catholic Church to follow or obey. Now, mind you, these laws and these statutes that are formed by bishops, and especially the Pope, they are man-made doctrines, they are definitely not the teachings found in the Bible. They are not the teachings taught by our Lord Jesus Christ, and ultimately, not the teachings or the commandments that were taught by the Almighty God himself. So here is the question that I’d like to pose. If the Catholic Church and its leaders make laws, man made teachings, invented laws, and they obliged all of their members to follow. And these laws are not found in the Bible, in fact, not just not found in the Bible, but contradictory to what the Bible teaches, then how can the Catholic Church claim that they are the true church?
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Jojo Bayani
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, you know, Brother JoJo, Brothers, our audience is probably interested in knowing, you know, specifics. You know, that’s a kind of a general thing we’ve been looking at. But what about specifics, when it comes to the laws or doctrines implemented in the Catholic Church, which are not biblical. What can we show as an example of a teaching of the Catholic church that’s not a law of God, not a doctrine of Christ and it’s not according to the Bible?
Brother Solomon Joves: Brother Johnny if you will allow me once again, I will read to you what is recorded in this Catholic pamphlet, or publication entitled Christ’s seven sacraments, which was published by the Supreme Council Knights of Columbus, religious Information Bureau on page 22 of that publication. This is what we can read:
[Christ’s Seven Sacraments (pamphlet) published by the Supreme Council Knights of Columbus Religious Information Bureau, Page 22]
“The rule is that priests be unmarried and remain so. This is strictly a rule of the Church, not a command of Christ, nor a law of God.”
Brother Solomon Joves: Dear friends, people in general know that Catholic priests or nuns for that matter, are not allowed to get married. It states here in this publication that we have quoted that the strict rule in the Catholic Church is for priests to be unmarried and remain so. Now consider for a moment, the 1000s of men that have entered the Catholic priesthood, if they wish to remain Catholic priests, they should stay unmarried. But take note also, dear friends of the admission of the Catholic Church, that this rule regarding celibacy is strictly a mere rule of the church, not a law of the Lord Jesus Christ, and especially not a commandment or a law of the Lord God. So what are they implementing? Celibacy, what they’ve been strictly implementing for their priests and even their nuns is a man made teaching is merely a doctrine that was concocted by the Catholic Church. So what they’re implementing and having some of their members follow strictly is not a teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ, not a commandment of God, but a man made teaching or commandment. How can they now claim that they are the true church that belongs to our Lord Jesus Christ, when it is quite apparent and obvious that they teach man-made doctrines and instructions?
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Solomon Joves
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: Now, Brothers, here’s the interesting question. If the Bible does not teach that celibacy, or a prohibition of marriage, is a teaching of the Lord Jesus and a doctrine of God, well, whose teaching is it? Does the Bible inform us who doctrine it is? I’m sorry Brother Greg, does the Bible inform us who’s doctrine it is to forbid marriage, according to the apostles?
Brother Greg Worthen: Yes, I think it’s a strong point, Brother Johnny, particularly the fact that now we’re going to go to the supreme authority, the truth, the words of God, that the Bible teaches in response to that question. Whose teaching isn’t if it doesn’t belong to God, and it doesn’t belong to Christ. We’ll read the testimony that Apostle Paul gives First Timothy 4:1 and 3 from the Douay Rheims translation. This has stated:
Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last time some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils. Forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth.
[ I Timothy 4:1 and 3 Douay Rheims]
Brother Greg Worthen: According to the testimony of Apostle Paul, forbiddance of marriage is not only not a doctrine of Christ, or a teaching of Christ and our doctrine of God. It’s a teaching of the devil. Now, we say this not to hurt the feelings of our Catholic friends, our loved ones, but to reveal to them the truth that the Bible teaches. And the truth of the matter is, when one imposes what is being done, for example, inside the Catholic Church and not allowing, for example, their priests or nuns to marry, the doctrine they are following is a doctrine of our enemy, or the devil. So again, Brother Solomon, you mentioned that, how can the Catholic church say that they are the true Church Of Christ, when what they are following are the doctrines of Christ enemy, our enemy, the devil?
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Greg Worthen
London, England
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: Now, Brothers, you know, one of the other things that people are generally familiar with, is that Catholics are taught to go to confession. You know, that’s where members of the Roman Catholic Church go inside a confessional booth and confess to a Catholic priest the sins that they committed against God. What do Catholic authorities themselves confess, regarding confession?
Brother Jojo Bayani: Brother Johnny, let’s turn to one of the authorities of the Catholic Church. In addressing that question about Confession. Allow me to read a book entitled, What the Church Teaches. This was written by JD Conway, who is a Catholic priest, here on page 193. And allow me to quote:
[What the Church Teaches, J.D. Conway, Page 193]
“THE QUESTION I would like to know where in the Bible it says anything about Confession…
“THE ANSWER… I cannot prove to you directly from the Bible alone that confession is necessary for the forgiveness of sins. And we have no evidence that Jesus has heard anyone’s confession.
“We Catholics do not base all our doctrines on the scriptures alone, and unaided.
Brother Jojo Bayani: Now this statement made by one of the priests of the Catholic Church should be an eye opener for all of us, for all of our viewers, especially for our friends and loved ones, who still belong to the Catholic faith. What the priest is confessing here with regard to the Sacrament of Confession, is that there is no proof. There’s no evidence that our Lord Jesus Christ heard anyone’s confession. And what the priest is also saying here, that confession cannot be proven directly to be a teaching of the Bible. In fact, as we know, confession is not a teaching from the Bible, in the sense that one must go to a priest in order to confess his sins. Now, if I may just add my own opinion here. If one should happen to have an argument with a Catholic priest, for example, and one was at fault in, in having that misunderstanding or that argument, then the thing to do, the right thing to do for a person is to go to the Catholic priests and say, well, Priest, Catholic priest, I did something that may have caused you to be offended, I may have hurt your feelings, I have sinned against you, please forgive me of my sins. I am confessing my sin against you. Then that would be perfectly okay. But we’re talking about sins not made against the Catholic priest. We’re talking about sins made against our Almighty God. And so the Catholic priest who wrote this book says, and is giving us evidence that when it comes to the teachings of the Catholic Church, they don’t base it on the Bible alone. And that should not be the case. And so, if I may be once again allowed to pose that same question that I posed earlier, which are being posed by all of us. How can the Catholic church say that they are the true church, when in fact, their teachings are not found in the Bible. And one of those teachings that are unbiblical and contradictory to the Bible is to confess one’s sins to the Catholic priest.
Brother Solomon Joves: And also Brother JoJo and Brother Johnny if I may, although we do not agree with confessing one sense to priests, the Bible does speak of confession. If a true Christian commits a sin against our Lord God, we should confess our sins not to anybody, but to our Lord God or the Father. And the Bible tells us that if we confess our sins, and we are sincere in our contrition, and our promise not to commit the same mistakes again and try our best to renew our lives, God is just He will forgive us and pardon all of our unrighteousness.
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Solomon Joves
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: Now, Brother with regard to the things that you were just saying, what specific verse in the Bible are you referring to?
Brother Solomon Joves: That’s in first John 1:9 which goes like this:
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[I John 1:19 KJV]
Brother Johnny Martin: Okay, thank you, Brother Solomon, Brother Greg, what is another basis in the Bible, which shows us why we’re very sure that the Catholic practice of confession of their sins against God to the priests is really something against the teaching of the Bible?
Brother Greg Worthen: What have we seen in the life of God’s early servants, for example, as recorded in Psalms 32:5, let me read that here as it’s decreed this way.
Then I declared my sin to you: my guilt I did not hide. I said, “I confess my transgression to the Lord” and you took away the guilt of my sin.
[Psalms 32:5 NABRE]
Brother Greg Worthen: So when it was in the lives of God’s early servants, or even in the Christian era, as Brother Solomon coded also and read. When a servant of God sins against God, then he is, of course, obligated to also bring that sin or ask for the forgiveness of that sin that he committed against God to God. And God, of course, would take away the iniquity or the guilt in relation to that sin. And that’s what we practice inside the Church Of Christ or the Iglesia Ni Cristo
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Greg Worthen
London, England
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Greg Worthen: Now dear viewers, are these the only things that the Catholic Church teaches and practices but are not scriptural? Showing that the Catholic church is a church that simply follows near men and not the Lord Jesus Christ and not the Lord God? We’re going to answer that as the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition continues, stay with us
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INC International Edition
Brother Johnny Martin: Welcome back everyone to the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. Today we’ve been taking a look at the doctrines of the Catholic Church, and seeing if they are actually commandments of God, teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, and recorded in the Bible. Now, we’ve already seen enough evidence to prove that the Catholic Church is not the true Church Of Christ. Well, let us take a look at one more teaching of theirs. What is one of the most basic or fundamental teachings of the Catholic Church? Let’s check out this video where a Catholic priest is speaking.
[Video starts]
[Source: YouTube]
Priest: Well, what is the Holy Trinity, the Holy Trinity is that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, three persons in one God, what does that mean? Just what I said, Okay, what can you give? Can I give you a better explanation? Now, we also see them within the context of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, this community of love that God is three persons one God, do we fully comprehend it? No. Why is that important? Same reason I said about evolution, we stand before something, and we say it is beyond our ability to comprehend. We don’t understand. And once we do that, we have the door to wisdom right in front of us. And we understand that we know that we do not know.
[Video ends]
Brother Solomon Joves: Brother Johnny in conjunction with that video. And dear viewers, I would like to share with you what is written in this book entitled The Faith Of Our Fathers, which is written by a Catholic authority by the name of James Gibbons, who used to be the archbishop or Cardinal of Baltimore, Maryland. On page one of this book, this is what we can read.
[The Faith Of Our Fathers, James Gibbons, Page 1]
“The Catholic Church teaches that there is but one God…. In this one God there are three distinct persons, –the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, who are perfectly equal to each other.’
Brother Solomon Joves: Well, this reinforces what we saw in the video earlier, wherein that priest did say that the Catholic Church believes, as their doctrine concerning God that He is one, but is composed or made up of three distinct persons that are perfectly equal to each other, that they are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This is the official stand of the Catholic Church as to the God that they recognize. One, but it’s made of three persons, which is what they call the Holy Trinity.
Brother Johnny Martin: Now, Brothers, some of our viewers may be wondering why we’re so sure that the trinity doctrine of the Catholic Church is a wrong doctrine. What do Catholic authorities admit regarding the doctrine of the Trinity?
Brother Greg Worthen: Well, Brother Johnny, even with the term trinity itself, by admission of a Catholic priest, it’s not a biblical term, we can read that, as we go to his book entitled Our Christian Faith written by a Catholic priest named Richard higher on page 17.
[Our Christian Faith, Richard Hire, Page 17]
“Today, we use terms like ‘Trinity,’ ‘sacrament,’ and ‘infallibility.’ Yet none of these terms are biblical.’
Brother Greg Worthen: So by the admission of the Catholic priest, there is an admission that the term trinity is not a biblical term, you’re not going to find it in any of the 66 books that contain the words of God or the Bible.
Brother Jojo Bayani: If I may add just something to what Brother Greg just said, when it comes to the term trinity. It’s not just the word trinity that cannot be found in the Bible. The teaching or the doctrine of the Trinity is also not found in the Bible. Allow me to read to you from a book entitled The New Catholic Encyclopedia, volume 14, here on page 306.
[The New Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 14, Page 306]
“The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament.”
Brother Jojo Bayani: And so there is a confession of Catholic authorities that it’s not just the word itself, the word trinity, but the teaching about trinity. It cannot be found anywhere in the Old Testament, there are 39 books that comprise the Old Testament, neither the word nor the teaching of Trinity can be found in any of those books.
Brother Johnny Martin: Now, what if somebody says this Brothers, “all right, if we can’t find the word trinity in the Bible, we can’t find the doctrine of Trinity, the Old Testament but what about the New Testament?” Does the New Testament support that teaching of Trinity?
Brother Solomon Joves: Brother Johnny, I have with me here a copy of an excerpt of the teaching of Christ the Catholic Catechism for adults on page 177. This is what we can read in their publication.
[The Teaching of Christ: A Catholic Catechism for Adults, Page 177]
“The word”Trinity ” does not appear in the New Testament; and the meanings of the words ‘person’ and ‘nature,’ in the precise senses in which these words are used to bear the message of God, had to be carefully refined to bear the message rightly.
Brother Solomon Joves: Therefore, Brother Johnny and dear viewers, the word or the term trinity cannot be found not only in the Old Testament, but also in the New Testament. And it’s not just the word trinity that is unbiblical. The very doctrine of the teaching regarding the so-called Holy Trinity is unbiblical.
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Solomon Joves
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: So we can see Brothers in the Roman Catholic Church are teaching the doctrine that there are three persons in one god the triune God, well, that’s their doctrine, that’s where they stand. But what’s the solid proof that that doctrine of theirs is absolutely not in the Bible? Why are we so sure that you know the trinity doctrine that there are three persons in one god is unscriptural in the Bible? Who is the true God?
Brother Greg Worthen: Well, I think the best authority to ask your Brother Johnny is our Lord Jesus Christ. Because if the Trinity is a doctrine, and He’s part of that, then He would introduce himself that way, but whom does he introduce as the true God is it himself, the Father Himself, and the Holy Spirit will go to the testimony of the Lord Himself, in John 17:1 and 3, Jesus said:
When Jesus had said this, he raised his eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you. Now this is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
[John 17:1-3 NABRE]
Brother Greg Worthen: Jesus, by this statement by this teaching, and this prayer proves that the Trinity word and doctrine is truly unbiblical. Because here he introduces who the true God is. That they would know you, the only true God. He didn’t say, they may know me, or they may know us together with the Holy Spirit as the only true God. And of course, how important it is that one knows the only true God who is the father that was being prayed to here by our Lord Jesus Christ, Christ said, This is eternal life. If one believes in a God, other than the true God, that Jesus introduced here, then he is jeopardizing the very eternal life that one so desires. That’s why in the true Church Of Christ, we uphold the teaching that there is only one true God; he is the father, whom Christ introduced.
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Greg Worthen
London, England
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Jojo Bayani: If I may add something to that, just real quick Brothers, we can then safely and fairly conclude that the Catholic Church cannot be the true Church, as taught by the Bible. We have covered so many different teachings of the Catholic Church in this program, that are not found in the Bible examples such as the celibacy of the priests and the nuns, the confession of sins, not to God, but to the priest, the teaching of the Trinity, which we know is unscriptural or unbiblical, we can and I once again say fairly and safely conclude that because of these teachings, which are not found in the Bible, that the Catholic Church is not the true Church Of Christ.
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Jojo Bayani
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, you know, dear Brothers and dear viewers, if we would ask another Catholic priest, which is the true Church, built by the Lord Jesus Christ, what testimony would they give? We would like to share with you dear friends what is recorded in a Catholic book. The book is entitled Religion, Doctrine and Practice, written by a Catholic priest named Francis Castley. Here on page 444, the following is stated:
[Religion, Doctrine and Practice, Francis Castley, Page 444]
“This Church, founded in organized by Christ and preached by the apostles, is the Church of Christ,… It is the only true Church, and the one in which God orders all men to join.”
Brother Johnny Martin: Dear friends, this Catholic book clearly states several important facts. Number one, the church that was founded and organized by the Lord Jesus Christ is the Church Of Christ. Number two, the church preached by the apostles, is the Church Of Christ. Number three, the only true church is the church A Church Of Christ and forth the church that God orders all men to join is the Church Of Christ. Very clear, we accept the statements made by this Catholic priest because the Bible supports some, as we’ve shown many times in this and other religious programs of the Iglesia Ni Cristo, therefore, the true church that belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ is not the Roman Catholic Church, but it is the Church Of Christ or the lesson of Christo serving you now, through this program.
Brother Johnny Martin: We’d like to thank Brother Jojo Bayani, in Los Angeles, Brother Solomon Joves in San Francisco, and Brother Greg Worthen in London for giving us Bible-based answers. So that as the Apostle Peter said to the members of the church, you will be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you’re living the way you are, which we can read in first Peter 3:15.
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, that does it for us here on the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. We hope you’ll join us again next time. I’m Johnny Martin, thank you so much for watching. And as we come to the end of the program, we invite you to join us for a short prayer.
Brother Johnny Martin: Our Lord God Almighty Father in heaven, we thank you so very much Dear Father, for allowing us to have an opportunity like this, to share Your message with all of our viewers to help them to know the truth Dear Father he has regarding the true Church Of Christ. We pray, Dear God, that your grace, your love, your blessing will be upon everyone who has had the chance to watch this program. May you touch their lives, Dear Father, and help them as they continue in their search for the true Church Of Christ. Dear Father, we also pray that you will continue to bless this program. May You continue to be a useful instrument of yours, so that there’ll be more to know the truth about you and about the true Church Of Christ. Dear God in heaven, it is our faith you have granted us your blessings. And you will continue to always bless the Administration of the Church. Can you grant them the wisdom and the power that they need, so that they can continue to lead all of your servants in these last days, as we prepare ourselves to receive the promise of salvation. We pray for all of this Dear Father, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
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