3:37 Is there a biblical basis, that following the teachings of a religion that is not true, could even be dangerous?
5:10 Is it not only the teachers of the false doctrine who are in danger, but even those who are following them?
7:58 Why is it that following such false teachings became so dangerous, became so self destructive?
11:22 Is there really a biblical basis for this apostasy discussion that we’re talking about? Is this really relevant to the religious scene of today?
22:07 Were the apostles prohibited to marry or did they have wives?
32:24 What does God Himself have to say about those who put their faith and trust in these false false gods, and they supposedly could do good for their lives?
34:04 What do they have to say, regarding their use of images like this?
35:58 Why is it that they cannot deny that what they are doing is truly worshiping the idols and they’re giving the instruction to kneel down before them.
38:47 Is there any evidence that they attempt to present themselves as equal with God?
41:50 What do we invite all our friends and viewers to do?
[Show open]
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INC International Edition
Brother Bob Pellien: Hello, I’m Bob Pellien, and this is the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition.
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Bob Pellien: Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it? On this program we presented the biblical evidence that what the Bible calls apostasy has truly occurred throughout history. The Bible also has revealed to us who was responsible for it as well as presenting warnings to us about its dangers. So, why is it so important for us to not only receive the evidence that an apostasy or turning away from the true faith has truly occurred? But to also ask whether or not this study should be given one’s genuine and sincere attention? How will understanding apostasy benefit you?
Brother Bob Pellien: Today, we’ll provide evidence from the Holy Bible how understanding the apostasy will benefit your life. All of these and much more today on the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. And dear friends, joining us in our discussion is Brother Ruben Bustos in Los Angeles, California
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Ruben Bustos
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Johnny Martin in Quezon City, Philippines.
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Johnny Martin
Quezon City, Philippines
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: As well as Brother Glenn David in Sydney, Australia. Brothers, thank you for joining us in our discussion today.
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Glenn David
Sydney, Australia
Minister of the Gospel
Brothers: Hi, Brother Bob.
Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers, we’ve been discussing in this program the last couple of episodes about apostasy or the term of turning away from the true faith or the forewarned by our Lord Jesus Christ and the apostles back in the first century.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Bob Pellien: It’s been proven to us already this apostasy has truly taken place and the evidence is the proliferation of false teachings as well as false teachers all over the world who are convincing so many people to bow down to statues and images for example or believe in other kinds of false gods and to hold improper, unacceptable worship of the one true God. Brothers, let’s begin our discussion posing questions like this: why is it invaluable for our viewers to have a detailed grasp or understanding not only what has happened in the history of this departures from the true doctrine but the current religious scene of today that has emerged as a result of the apostasy.
Brother Johnny Martin: You know, Brother Bob when we have a discussion about apostasy, the word danger indeed does come to mind because as mentioned a moment ago with apostasy there is a falling away, there is a turning away from the true Christian faith and obviously that cannot be a good thing.
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Johnny Martin
Quezon City, Philippines
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: Right. It is dangerous.
Brother Ruben Bustos: In fact, Brother Bob, there’s repercussions when it comes to accepting false teachings.
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Ruben Bustos
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Ruben Bustos: That’s why it does, rather it is very dangerous, spiritually speaking for someone to be tangled up in that type of belief.
Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Johnny, you use the term first you said it’s dangerous. So is it really dangerous? Is that maybe taking a little bit too far? Is there a biblical basis, for example, Brother Johnny that for you saying that following the teachings of a religion that is not true, could even be dangerous?
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, you know, Brother Bob, not simply may be dangerous, but definitely dangerous. And the reason why we’re mentioning that is because of what is stated here. In Second Peter 3:16:
He wrote about these things in all of his writings. Some of these things are hard to understand. People who do not have much understanding and some were not strong in the faith change the meaning of his letters. They do this to the other parts of the Holy Writings also. They are destroying themselves as they do this.
[II Peter 3:16 NLV]
Brother Johnny Martin: So the question was, why is it dangerous? Well, the Bible makes it clear that it is dangerous, because if they change the Holy Writings, or if they change the Holy Scriptures, they are destroying themselves.
Brother Ruben Bustos: The truth of the matter is brothers, it’s not only those who are teaching false doctrines that are in danger. In fact, those people that are following them and the teachings that they are upholding, they are also in danger.
Brother Bob Pellien: But wait a second, Brother Ruben you mean that not only the teachers of the false doctrine are in danger. But even those who are following them? Aren’t they innocent? They’re just followers. They’re innocent, right? One may assume that they’re innocent anyway.
Brother Ruben Bustos: Well, Brother Bob, in fact, if we read what the Bible mentions here in the book of Matthew chapter 24, verse 11, it does mention to us why they are in danger:
Many false religious teachers will come. They will fool many people, and will turn them to the wrong way.
[Matthew 24:11 NLV]
Brother Ruben Bustos: Now, according to what we have read these people who have listened to these false preachers and accepted their teachings, they were led in the wrong path or the wrong way. In other words, they are being led not to salvation, but to destruction.
Brother Bob Pellien: So even the followers, although they may consider themselves innocent, there’s still, as you said, Bother Reuben consequences are there’s still repercussions for them. And that is that they’re being led down the wrong way, the wrong path, the wrong way of serving God.
Brother Glenn David: Well, absolutely, Brother Bob, the Bible makes it abundantly clear now. For example, in our recent episode, we studied in depth, the proofs or the evidence that the apostasy of the true Church Of Christ did really take place.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Glenn David: And we saw how millions of Catholics are taught to make statues, bow down and pray before the graven images. So if there’s someone following that false teaching, this is what the Bible says about those who do that. And that’s written here in Hosea, chapter 8, verse 4 in the New Living Translation, it says:
…By making idols for themselves from their silver and gold, they have brought about their own destruction.
[Hosea 8:4 New Living Translation]
Brother Glenn David: So is there a consequence of being led down the wrong path? Well, absolutely, yes, Brother Bob, it’s true that it’s not only the false teachers who endanger themselves, but also those that follow them, and their dangerous teachings, and those who follow them also place themselves in grave danger.
Brother Bob Pellien: So it’s then brothers, clear, it’s not just the teachers of false doctrines who have led them the apostasy, or led the world into a state of apostasy or turning away from the teachings of the one true God as well as our Lord Jesus Christ, but the followers of those that are equally so in danger, because both will be led to destruction. That’s why the viewers, we have to be so intent in our study of this particular doctrine, the apostasy. We cannot just water it down and just make it a side issue. This is a life and death issue. This must be understood the importance of casting aside false doctrines, false teachings and embracing the truth. But Brothers, why is that so? Why is it that following such false teachings became so dangerous, became so self destructive?
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, you know, Brother Bob, it’s because they’re doing something that they themselves may not even realize. And what is that? Well, we can read that here in the Bible in First Timothy 4:1:
The Spirit says clearly that in later times some believers will desert the Christian faith. They will follow spirits that deceive, and they will believe the teachings of demons.
[I Timothy 4:1 GW]
Brother Johnny Martin: Dear friends, what may they not even realize? The Bible teaches that there are those who will desert the Christian faith or in other words, be apostatized and end up following and believing in the teachings of demons or as stated in other versions of the Bible, the doctrines of devils.
Brother Bob Pellien: And that surely and clearly is dangerous. So one way in which apostasy occurs is when people are led astray from following God’s teachings.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Bob Pellien: Follow instead, teachings of demons, as you just read their Brother Johnny, are teachings which are truly not from God. Brother Ruben, is there another mention in the Bible of people deserting God? Because maybe our viewers would be thinking well, I would not desert God, I would not be a victim of this apostasy. Dear viewers, are you sure?
Brother Ruben Bustos: Well, if we consult the Holy Scriptures, Brother Bob, it mentions to us many ways on how people desert or turn away from our Lord God. If we read the book of Jeremiah, chapter 1, verse 16, this is what it mentions:
This is the way I will punish my people for deserting me and for worshiping other gods–yes, idols they themselves have made!
[Jeremiah 1:16 TLB]
Brother Ruben Bustos: Now according to what we have read, what is one way a person deserts or turns away from our Lord God? The Bible made it very clear by worshiping idols or by worshiping images.
Brother Bob Pellien: But Brother Johnny, do you think people are going to just readily admit that they have deserted God?
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, people who say they believe in God, and they really worship Him if they would say that they feel that way within themselves. Well, they’re not going to openly admit to just deserting God. But there are indeed several ways of showing one’s desertion of God like was just read from the Bible, when a person is worshiping false gods or idols, well, they are now guilty of deserting God.
Brother Bob Pellien: Right. Right.
Brother Glenn David: Brother Johnny, if I could just interject for a moment. This is also a way in which we can further identify those who have been apostatized or who have departed from the true faith and no longer worship the true God.
Brother Bob Pellien: Yes, you know, and Brothers, you know, perhaps someone would say, you know, you’re just taking a word out of the dictionary, apostasy and making a discussion about it. But you know, dear viewers, brothers as well, you know, it’s not just the word out of the dictionary that we’re discussing here. Although apostasy may not be a word that is regularly used in religious discussions. But Brothers, is there really a biblical basis for this apostasy discussion that we’re talking about? Is this really relevant to the religious scene of today?
Brother Glenn David: Absolutely, Brother Bob, and the term apostasy. We can actually read that in the Bible. And we can read that here in Second Thessalonians, chapter 2:3-4. In the New American Standard Bible, this is what we could read. It says:
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called God or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
[ II Thessalonians 2:3-4 New American Standard Bible]
Brother Glenn David: So does the Bible specifically mention the term apostasy? Yes, it is written there. And if that is the case, it will be very difficult to deny that the apostasy did not play take place, as many Catholic defenders argue, because not only can we read the word apostasy, the apostle also gives us a warning about a man of lawlessness, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god, he takes his seat in the temple of God, display himself as being god. And what is the equivalent of that? Well, he’s making Himself equal with the Lord God.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Bob Pellien: So, brothers just to recap and review here a bit. There is indeed first of all, a mention of apostasy in the scriptures is a desertion or departure from the true faith mentioned in the Bible, that it is not just a word that was taken out of the dictionary for the purpose of having a discussion. It’s a biblical concept that must be discussed more so the viewers must be understood well, by everyone for not understanding it would be dangerous, isn’t it Brother Glenn?
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Glenn David: Yes, very true, Brother Bob. And yet this is also manifested in those who reject the Lord God’s teachings and follow teachings of demons or doctrines of devils.
Brother Ruben Bustos: You know is that the truth is Brother Bob even the apostasy is manifest as shown by those who reject God by worshiping idols and other gods.
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Ruben Bustos
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Ruben Bustos: In addition to this, what the Apostle Paul had mentioned earlier that those who will play a major role in the apostasy are turning away from the true faith, that they will make themselves equal to our Lord God himself.
Brother Bob Pellien: Make themselves equal with God. And that’s why dear viewers because we care about you, we care about all our fellow men, who may still be within the clutches of the Roman Catholic Church.
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To learn more about the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church Of Christ), log onto www.iglesianicristo.net
Brother Bob Pellien: We are therefore obliged by that love for our fellow men to share with you what the Bible teaches regarding the fulfillment of the apostasy, forewarned in the Holy Scriptures. Now, Brother Johnny, does the Bible give further clarification? What are these teachings that you read about earlier– teachings of demons or teachings, the doctrines of devils that you made mention there in First In First Timothy Apostle Paul’s letter to Timothy, let’s take a look at some of the very specific details that were given.
Brother Johnny Martin: Yes, Brother Bob, Apostle Paul, he not only made mention of the doctrines of the devil, he also identified what some of those doctrines of the devil are. We’re going to read about this here in verse three, First Timothy, four, three, but we’re going to start first in verse one. And this is what the Bible says:
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Johnny Martin
Quezon City, Philippines
Minister of the Gospel
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
[I Timothy 4:3 KJV]
Brother Johnny Martin: So the question is, what are the doctrines of the devil? Well, Apostle Paul here identified two of them, he warned the Christians about two doctrines of the devil, which would be taught by those who would lead the disciples in departing or turning away from the true faith.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Johnny Martin: First mentioned here, is forbidding to marry. And the second one is commanding us to abstain from meat. Now, if we truly want to know who were responsible for the apostasy for the desertion from the Christian faith, then we need to determine or identify, who are the ones who teach, uphold these doctrines of the enemy of God.
Brother Bob Pellien: Right. We don’t want to just be accusers, we have to find who’s actually who’s actually doing it, isn’t it, Brother Ruben?
Brother Ruben Bustos: Yes, Brother Bob, just like in a court of law, the perpetrator of the crime, well, in order for the court to prove that he did this, there needs to be evidence that’s laid down in front of the jury, so that they would be able to present a solid and irrefutable case against that person. Now, in the same way, we are not presenting our own evidence here in our discussion. In fact, what we are presenting are the teachings of the Holy Scriptures, we’re reading verses from the Bible. And what we are basically doing is trying to find out who or what is the fulfillment of what the Bible is teaching to us.
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Brother Johnny Martin: And you know, beloved viewers, we would never accuse anyone falsely, and without solid evidence, but the Church Of Christ or Iglesia Ni Cristo was obligated to teach the truth. And so we will identify first, who has this teaching regarding forbidding marriage?
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Brother Johnny Martin: Let’s take a look at what has been admitted by the Roman Catholic Church. And we shall be reading from the book entitled, The Faith of Our Fathers, written by James Gibbons, a Catholic priest, we shall read the following recorded on page 328. And this is stated:
[Source: Faith of Our Fathers, James Gibbons, Page 328]
“ Although celibacy is not expressly enforced by our Savior, it is, however, commended so strongly by himself and his Apostles, both by word and example, that the church felt it her duty to lay it down as a law. The discipline of the Church has been exerted from the beginning in prohibiting Priests to marry after their ordination.”
Brother Johnny Martin: So if our question is, what religious organization in the world today is upholding this doctrine of the enemy of God, on the prohibition of marriage? Well, the answer is very clear. The Roman Catholic Church. In fact, they do not deny that their priests are prohibited to get married, after their ordination. Now, that’s very important, because those who uphold that doctrine, those who embrace that teaching well, are only showing themselves to be the ones responsible for the apostasy.
Brother Bob Pellien: Yeah, if that’s if that’s the evidence, then a Brother Johnny and they’re admitting in the book that they’re, doing that and the evidence, therefore points to them, and they’re admitting to it. They’re also admitting that they are responsible for the apostasy there. They’re openly admitting that they were the ones who led so many away from the true teachings, and, and the true doctrines.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Glenn David: But we’re not trying to hurt the feelings of anyone, when we point out these grave doctrinal errors of the Catholic Church. At first, yes, we may be hurt. It may be shocking to hear, especially when we hear doctrines of devils, doctrines of demons. But as members of the Church Of Christ, we have to do our part is our obligation to share our faith.
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Brother Glenn David: And that is to share a present with the truth to expose it to the people of this world, not only to members of the Catholic Church, but also to other religions so that they may know what is wrong in their church. And once they know and realize what is wrong, they must now turn a fight and search for the truth and what is right. And what is right is here inside the Church Of Christ, which is the very reason we are having this program to discuss the truth so that more people will be saved on the Day of Judgment.
Brother Bob Pellien: That’s a good point, Brother Glenn.
Brother Ruben Bustos: The truth is Brothers, we have relatives that are in the Catholic faith and we would never do anything to hurt anyone’s feelings purposely. But you know, these are the truths, no matter how hurtful they may be, no matter how sharp they may be, to the ear, it must be presented, because what is at stake is none other than one’s soul and salvation when our Lord Jesus Christ comes again.
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Ruben Bustos
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: Right, right.
Brother Johnny Martin: You know, actually, when we’re talking about something like this, brothers, and dear viewers, the word love actually should be coming to mind. We do love not only those inside the Roman Catholic Church, but we love our fellow men in general.
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Johnny Martin
Quezon City, Philippines
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: We sincerely care about them, we do want what is best for them, especially we would like them to also receive the promise of salvation and everlasting life on the return of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. But to be able to receive that reward of salvation, people really do need to know the truth. And we’ve talked about that before in this particular program, and even other programs of the Iglesia Ni Cristo, how it really is the word of God that all men would be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. And so sometimes when we are sharing the truth, there are some things that people might find a little bit painful to hear. But it’s still the truth. It is something people need to know, people need to embrace and hold on to, in order to receive salvation
Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers, those are all good points. And it’s true, we never purposely just throw out sharp statements or such. But these outer realistic biblical facts, and the fact of the matter remains, what the Roman Catholic Church continues to teach are teachings that are not the way of truth that is, is that have been taught by Christ and His apostles, since the very beginning of the true Church Of Christ in the time of Christ, and His apostles, back in the first century.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Ruben Bustos: In fact, Brother Bob, if we were to compare what they mentioned, regarding the priest, being prohibited to marry, and we compare it to what the Bible teaches regarding the apostles, who were true ministers of the gospel, we need to find out were the apostles prohibited to marry or did they have wives? We could read the answer here in the book of First Corinthians, chapter 9, verse 5:
Do we have no right to take along a believing wife as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
[I Corinthians 9:5 NKJV]
Brother Ruben Bustos: Now according to what we have read, were the apostles forbidden to marry? Or did they have wives? The Bible teaches us that the apostles had wives. In fact, the Bible mentioned that Cephas or Apostle Peter had a wife. The truth of the matter is, this is the reason reason why there was a declining number of priests and nuns, because of the doctrine of the Catholic Church, forbidding to marry
Brother Bob Pellien: Again, beloved viewers, when we come back, we will investigate this further. Who truly matches the definition of apostasy? By identifying well, who also forbade the eating of meat, which as we read earlier, is another one of the doctrines of the devils. Who are those who practice the worship of idols, the worship of graven images, and who are those who please themselves to be equal with God? Dear viewers, all of these we shall see the answers to when the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition continues.
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INC International Edition
Brother Bob Pellien: Welcome back dear viewers. Before the break, we identified that one of the doctrines of the devil, which is forbidding to marry can be found inside the Roman Catholic Church and its teaching regarding celibacy. Some, however, might think that it’s just a coincidence. Well, what about other doctrines of the devil mentioned by the apostle Paul, in the verses read earlier, like commanding to abstain from meat? Who’s professing to uphold the true faith, and yet are upholding that false teaching of the devil, Brother Glenn?
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Glenn David: Well, if we were to read one of the Catholic books entitled manual Christian doctrine on page 317, it says this Brother Bob:
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Glenn David
Sydney, Australia
Minister of the Gospel
[Source Manual of Christian Doctrine, Page 317]
“What does the second command of the church order us to do? It orders us to abstain from flesh meat on certain days of the year.”
Brother Glenn David: So in answer to the question, who are teaching the doctrines of the devil, regarding commanding to abstain from meats, well, all evidence and perhaps point to one direction, which of course is the Roman Catholic Church.
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, based upon the teaching in that particular Catholic book, well, it’s very clear This teaching where they have abstinence from the eating of meat. Well, that’s not a teaching of the Almighty God. It’s not a teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is not a teaching that was given by the apostles, to the members of the early Christian church for them to follow, but rather that is a teaching of the enemy of God.
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Johnny Martin
Quezon City, Philippines
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Ruben Bustos: In fact, that is a total contradiction of the teachings of the Holy Scriptures. Because nowhere in the New Testament Can we read that our Lord God forbids His servants from eating flesh meats.
Brother Johnny Martin: And so brothers another piece of evidence presented in the Bible, the prohibition concerning the eating of meat can be directly linked to a church, which claims that it is the continuation of the church built by Christ in the first century. That is the Catholic Church.
Brother Bob Pellien: Yes, they made it very clear. Go ahead, Brother, go ahead.
Brother Glenn David: Well, what I was about to say again, Brother Bob, is that we hope that our viewers would see that our intention in examining the teachings of the Catholic Church or any other religion, for that matter, is not to attack, ridicule or offend anyone, not at all, brother. That is the last thing that we would want to do. In fact, it’s quite the contrary, it is our desire to once again present the truths, the words of God written in the Holy Bible, such as revealing who were really those responsible for the apostasy of the first century Church Of Christ. And sometimes, yes, the truth does really hurt. But we have to do our part once again, that each time we present the truth, we are presenting more opportunities for people to be saved, more light and more enlightenment so that we will no longer be blinded or left in the dark. So we need to know the truth. And that’s why we are studying this topic today.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Ruben Bustos: But Brother Bob, maybe two pieces of biblical evidence may not be enough to convince a jury of believers that the suspect in question, the Catholic Church, is indeed guilty of apostatizing or turning away from God.
Brother Bob Pellien: Is there more that could be presented to Brother Ruben?
Brother Ruben Bustos: Yes, Brother Bob, there are many verses and many things in the Bible that we can point to, that, in fact, proves that they are the guilty ones apostatizing or turning away from God.
Brother Johnny Martin: In other words, the Bible provides overwhelming evidence showing that the Catholic Church is really not the true Church Of Christ. In fact, we mentioned earlier that a proof of apostasy is the worship of idols in graven images.
Brother Bob Pellien: And you know, Brothers, let’s take a look at this video clip it actually shows a very clear example of that, how they’re using statues and the images and in this particular video clip, tree. Let’s take a look:
[Video starts]
[Source: Youtube/cagey 1two3]
Gus Rosedale: Along Bergen Lyon Avenue in West New York, the crowds gather, then linger. The piles of flowers grow. The cameras come out, and the photographers share the pack sidewalk with people who are deep in prayer. Barbra Quesdale believes she has just seen a sign from God.
Barbara Questel: And as soon as I got here, I felt like this rush when I saw it, and I felt like this rush came through my body. It is such an amazing feeling because we’re so blessed.
Gus Rosedale: This is what has drawn the faithful and the just plain curious. A section of bark on a city tree that resembles in the eyes of many here Our Lady of Guadalupe. The Virgin Mary is worshiped in Mexico. Johanna Ramos, among the first to spot the image earlier this week.
Johanna Ramos: Well, actually, it took me a while but then when I realized the colors and the shape of it and noticed it was big, it was really noticeable.
Gus Rosedale: The crowds have actually gotten so large that the police have set up barricades to protect people from the traffic as they wait in line.
Bacher Archnir: It’s excellent. It’s a mix of traffic. A lot of people come in and believe in the way I see the flower… very, very nice.
Gus Rosedale: As for Barbara, a woman who goes to church every day, and who has the initials of Our Lady of Guadalupe on her wrist, she says it’s a moment for all to reflect upon, no matter what you may see or not see along this New Jersey street.
Barbara Questel: Nowadays all you see is a lot of violence and just everyone’s really nasty to each other when they walk on the street and you bump into them you know you have to be more peaceful and …
[Video ends]
Brother Bob Pellien: So there you go Brothers. You saw the video of those that are even kissing the tree, you know the violation of the basic biblical principle not to have any kind of images to bow down to, to worship to, to pray to. This one’s even kissing the tree that he believes to be in the image of the Virgin Mary. Pretty, pretty profound now. Go ahead, but better Johnny go first. I am not surprised that everybody wants to comment on that because there was a very impactful visual of precisely what we’ve been reading and descriptors go ahead Brother Johnny. Sorry.
Brother Johnny Martin: Yes, it’s very interesting Brother Bob, because you know, there’s a couple of things we can mention, first of all, is that we don’t question the sincerity of the people who are expressing their religious convictions.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Johnny Martin: You know, they really sincerely believe in something and they have a devotion or dedication and whatever they are doing. But even though they have sincerity or devotion or dedication in what they’re doing, well, it doesn’t make it necessarily correct or right, in the eyes of God. For people to understand what is right for Christians to do, we have to go to what the Bible says in the Bible does not direct Christians to go out and worship images or statues or to render any kind of practice of idolatry. The Bible clearly speaks against that.
Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Reuben, what do you think of the video?
Brother Ruben Bustos: Just like what Brother Johnny had mentioned, Brother Bob, the positive thing that we can get from the video is that people are hungry, they’re thirsty to be with our Lord God, they would go to any many places just to to see if they would be close to Our Father. But the sad reality is because of how they were brought up, because of the teachings that they were introduced to. It shows that instead of being close to God, it brought them farther away from our Father in heaven, which is very sad.
Brother Glenn David: Also, Brother Bob, I think you can see a striking difference between the members of the Church Of Christ as well as with the Roman Catholic Church.
[On screen graphic]
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Brother Glenn David: We all go through challenges. We all go through trials, and many problems in this life, like that lady mentioned in her comment. But for us members of the Church Of Christ, for us to draw closer to God, we attend worship service, we make a solemn prayer to God, we listen to the words of God, and we apply that every day of our life.
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Brother Glenn David: And that’s how we put our hope and trust in Him. On the other hand, members of the Catholic Church turned to idolatry in order for them to put their hope and trust in something which cannot help them in reality.
Brother Bob Pellien: You know, Brother Glenn, we’ve read from the Bible earlier that one of the ways that people desert God and the true faith or our apostasy allow themselves to be apostatized is by turning to and worshiping idols just like what we saw on that video.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Bob Pellien: Well, what does God Himself have to say about those who put their faith and trust in these false false gods, and they supposedly could do good for their lives? What’s the Bible say about such things?
Brother Glenn David: Well, God says this through the prophet Jeremiah and chapter 10:3 to 5, it says:
For the customs of the people are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammer, So that it will not topple. They are upright, like a palm tree, And they can not speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, nor can they do any good.
[Jeremiah 10:3-5 NKJV]
Brother Glenn David: So what does the Lord God say about those who put their hope and trust in idols will God mentions here that they cannot go by themselves, they cannot speak, they cannot do evil, they cannot do good. In other words, they cannot do anything at all? So if we ourselves desire to observe the true service to the true God, we must take this teaching of the Holy Bible into account that we should not be fooled by those who teach that one can benefit from praying to or worshiping idols, graven images of false gods. So in plain sight, Brother Bob, we can see for ourselves that such a belief blatantly goes against the teachings of God written in the Holy Bible.
Brother Bob Pellien: But you know, Brothers, maybe the Catholic authorities would disagree with what the evidence has revealed so far. So, Brother Ruben, what do they themselves teach? Again, they themselves, what do they have to say, regarding their use of images like this?
Brother Ruben Bustos: Well, Brother Bob, if we read from a Catholic book entitled, The Faith of Our Fathers, written by James Gibbons, a cardinal of the Catholic faith, we could read this on page 164:
[Source: The Faith of Our Fathers, James Gibbons, Page164]
“The doctrine of the Catholic Church regarding the use of sacred images is clearly and fully expressed by the General Council of Trent in the following words: ‘The images of Christ, and of His Virgin Mother, and of other Saints, are to be had in retained, especially in churches; the honor which is given them is referred to the originals which they represent, so that by the images which we kiss, and before which we uncover our heads or kneel, we adore Christ and venerate His Saints, whose likeness they represent.’… The Pagans looked upon an idol as a god endowed with intelligence and the other attributes of the Deity.
Brother Ruben Bustos: So what is it that the Catholic Church teaches their members? Well, not only do they encourage their members or teach them to have images or idols, but they are instructed to kiss them, to kneel before them, to venerate all of these things with the logic that these things would be able to help them.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Ruben Bustos: That’s why it’s not surprising what we saw on the video Brother Bob, of these people kissing, embracing this tree, when in fact, the image that they saw was just a strange image carved into that tree.
Brother Bob Pellien: Right. Because that’s what they’re being taught to do. That’s what they’re being trained to do based on their official doctrine. But maybe they would say that, well, they’re not really worshiping these idols. But Brother Johnny, why is it that they cannot really, they cannot wait, let’s say it outright this way they cannot escape. They cannot deny that what they are doing is truly worshiping the idols and they’re giving the instruction to kneel down before them.
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, to answer those questions for the Bible. Let’s look at what the Bible says right here. In Psalms 95:6:
Oh come, let us worship and bow down; Let us kneel before the LORD our Maker.
[Psalms 95:6 NKJV]
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, how come those inside the Roman Catholic Church really can’t deny that what they’re doing to statues or images is really an acts of worship because according to what we’ve just read from the Bible, kneeling is an act of worship.
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Johnny Martin: And so when our fellow men, whom we love dearly, who aren’t members of the Catholic Church, are taught by their leaders to perform such an act before images and idols, well, they are not being drawn closer to God. Rather, they’re being drawn farther and farther away from God. Because what they are in truth doing is deserting the one true God.
Brother Bob Pellien: Now, that’s additional evidence that they are responsible for the apostasy. Is it Brother Glenn?
Brother Glenn David: You’ll absolutely Brother Bob, because we also have already learned that one of the meanings of apostasy is to desert God.
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Glenn David
Sydney, Australia
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Glenn David: And further evidence of the apostasy can be found in the Catholic Church, due to its practice of image worship, which is against the teachings of the true God. And furthermore, evidence is discussed earlier, we can see that the Bible or the Word of God says God itself is overruling any objections that Catholic defenders may have in regards to this topic.
Brother Bob Pellien: Dear friends, when we come back, we’ll continue our investigation, we will investigate whom the Bible teaches would lead the apostasy and the great sin that they commit against the true God. More on the Iglesia Ni Cristo, International Edition, when we return stay with us.
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
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INC International Edition
Brother Bob Pellien: Welcome back to the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition.
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
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Today’s topic: Apostasy, Why Do I Need to Understand it?
Brother Bob Pellien: Today we’re talking about apostasy. And we’ve learned this fire that well, in Second Thessalonians, two verses three and four in the New American Standard Bible, there is truly a mention of apostasy and that this would be led by those who put themselves as equals with God. So Brothers, can we find that identifier is well inside the Roman Catholic Church? And as much as all the other signs that we have read the Bible thus far have been found fulfilled inside the Catholic Church? Is there any evidence that they attempt to present themselves as equal with God?
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, yes Brother Bob, they allow themselves to be called Father in direct violation of what was taught by our Lord Jesus Christ. But let’s listen together to your viewers to what is recorded here in the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, in Matthew 23:9:
And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father.
[Matthew 23:9 NLT]
Brother Johnny Martin: So friends as we’ve studied in the past, on this particular program, it’s found inside the Roman Catholic Church, wherein they are trained to call and address their priest, as ‘father’ in direct violation of this clear instruction from our Lord Jesus Christ.
Brother Glenn David: And most importantly, Brothers, that gives you the more proofs and evidence that they indeed are responsible for the apostasy and continue to teach people to go against the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ, and all the more it points to them as those responsible for the was leading people away from the truth and salvation and that is why it is so dangerous to follow such teachings.
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Glenn David
Sydney, Australia
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: But wait a minute Brothers maybe they don’t mean that, that addressed to the priests as in a, in a spiritual fatherhood, thus equating themselves as if they are God like what Apostle Paul wrote in his letter to the Thessalonians. Maybe they meant it instead, just as, as a sense of respect. Suppose they would answer that way.
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Ruben Bustos: Well, we could say, Brother, that it is not out of a sense of respect. In fact, it’s an open violation of the instructions of our Father in heaven.
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Ruben Bustos
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Ruben Bustos: If we read a book entitled, The faith of our fathers, which we read earlier, if we read page 142. This is what it mentions:
[Source: The Faith of Our Fathers, James Gibbons, Page 142]
The Popes were not only devoted spiritual Fathers, but firm and valiant civil Governors.
Brother Ruben Bustos: So it is very clear here, Brothers that it is an open violation of the instructions of God because they mentioned here clearly, that the Pope’s were considered as spiritual fathers, not only the Popes, but even their priests which which they address as “father,” also, the address them as Father of spirits. So if we were to put all of these things together, beloved friends, we can see that there was an apostasy, there was a turning away from the true faith and true service to our Lord God. It in fact happened and this was fulfilled inside the Catholic Church. That’s why we encourage you beloved friends, beloved viewers, to please investigate, reconsider your faith inside the Catholic Church, join us inside the true Church Of Christ where when we could be brought closer to our Lord God, and our services would be accepted towards our salvation.
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To learn more about the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church Of Christ), log onto www.iglesianicristo.net
Brother Bob Pellien: And that’s what we invite all our friends and viewers to do. And it was specifically stated by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, allow me to read the words of our Savior before we finish up our broadcast for today 4:12 hear in the book of Mark, Jesus said:
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
[Mar 4:12 KJV]
Brother Bob Pellien: Dear friends, that’s our invitation, that’s the invitation of Jesus is well here to be converted or changed from embracing the false doctrines of apostasy perpetrated by Roman Catholicism and other religious institutions of this world that have so many bowing down to statues and images, calling them father and so many other violations of God’s commands, which have turned people away.
Brother Bob Pellien: So, Brothers we have to end it for now but we’d like to thank you. We’d like to thank Brother Ruben Bustos in Los Angeles, California, Brother Johnny Martin in Quezon City, Philippines, as well as Brother Glenn David in Sydney, Australia. Brothers, thank you for your Bible-based responses to all the discussion points regarding the Apostasy over the last episodes of this program as well as the discussion today. Thank you and thank you for giving your time to join us in our discussion.
Brother Bob Pellien: So as Apostle Peter said to the members of the Church, ‘You’ll be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you were living the way you are.’ That’s First Peter 3: 15.
Brother Bob Pellien: Well, that does it for us here on the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. Dear friends, we hope you will join us again next time. I’m Brother Bob Pellien. Thanks for watching. As we come to the end of the program, we invite you to please join us for a short prayer
Brother Glenn David: Our loving and merciful Father in heaven. Once again, we thank You, Lord, so very much for your kindness and blessings that we receive, Dear God. And we especially thank you for this message, these truths that we have received. That we so willingly want to share with our loved ones and friends, Dear Father, who are not yet members of your Holy Church so that dear God, that they may also be given the opportunity to be with us dear father, into service before you in glorifying your most Holy Name. May you please continue to bless this program, Dear God, especially as the messages and truths are relayed to the people of this world so that Dear Father more people will have the chance to be with us Dear God, in worshiping your most Holy Name and to be saved on the Day of Judgment. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, you are the throne of grace. Please mediate our prayers to our loving father. Once again, give us the heart and the courage that we need to invite and to relate, expose these tools to the people of this world. So that Lord Jesus will join your Holy Church, together we will serve our loving Father in heaven in a way which is pleasing before His heavenly sight. Father above us all, please bless the Church Administration and continue to guide our beloved Executive Minister, Dear Father. Always send forth the power of the Holy Spirit coming from you so that he may continue to lead us until the day we reach our salvation. God, we fully believe you’ve heard our prayer. And once again, Dear God, we do our best to always share our faith with the people of this world. So that all the more we may be pleasing before your sight. All these we pray, Oh God in heaven, in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen.
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