4:06 Why do we agree that everyone, including our Catholic friends should read the Bible?
15:03 What’s one of the teachings of the Bible that the Catholic Church contradicts?
16:45 Are there those who actually call themselves or refer to themselves as spiritual fathers?
23:56 Have you found any other of the teachings of Catholicism which truly run in contradiction to what the Bible says?
24:56 Supposed they would say for example, well, we’re not actually worshiping these statues and scapulars, rosaries, and all these things, we’re just venerating them?
34:00 When the Catholic Church is teaching to the population of Catholic members, who do they teach to them who God is?
35:05 Is that what the Bible teaches about God?
38:50 How about in the time of the prophets? Were they teaching a Trinitarian?
40:46 That the Father is co-equal with the son is co-equal with the with the Holy Spirit? Is that a contradiction? Or is that what the Bible presents?
42:26 Why do we spend this effort that we have in our discussion today in pointing this out?
[Show Opens]
Brother Bob Pellien: Hello, I’m Bob Pellien, and this is the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. Today’s topic: Contradicting the Bible.
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Bob Pellien: We’ll take a look at things that the Bible says to do, but other Christian professing religions are actually doing. And one such church is the Catholic Church. Does the Catholic church actually teach the words of God? Or do the Catholic teachings contradict what the Bible actually teaches? Will answer this and much more today on the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition.
Brother Bob Pellien: And joining us today in our discussion is Brother Greg Worthen in Miami, Florida,
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Greg Worthen
Miami, Florida
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Reuben Bustos in Los Angeles, California,
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Ruben Bustos
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: and Brother Johnny Martin in Quezon. City, Philippines.
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Johnny Martin
Quezon City, Philippines
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers, thank you for joining us in our discussion.
Brothers: Hi, Brother Bob. Hello, Brother Bob.
Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers many churches claimed to use the Bible as the basis of their faith.
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Bob Pellien: And these churches also believed that well that the Bible is really and truly the Word of God. And of course, it thus inspired by God. But if you examine their teachings very closely, well, many times what you’ll find is that what’s been taught is the complete opposite of what the Bible actually teaches. And before we get started with our studies on this topic, let’s take a look for a moment Brothers at this video clip.
[Video starts]
[Source: YouTube/ROME REPORTS in English]
Male VO: Following the open mass for the Synod, Pope Francis prayed the Angelus along with 1000s of pilgrims in St Peter’s Square. Pope Francis reminded them about the start of the Synod on the Family and recalled the imagery of the vineyard to talk about God’s people and specifically the family.
Pope (translated): Taking care of the family is a way to work on the Lord’s vineyard so it can produce the fruit of the Kingdom of God.
Male VO: In order for families to move forward, Pope Francis recommended that they read the Word of God. Pauline publishing gave a Bible to every person at the square to commemorate their founding. Pope Francis called on families to use them.
Pope (translated): It is not for putting in a shelf, but rather for having it at hand. It is for reading it often every day, either individually or in groups, husband and wife, parents and children; maybe at night especially on Sundays. That way , the family can move forward with the light and the power of the Word of God!
Male VO: Before leaving, Pope Francis asked the Pilgrims not to forget to pray in the upcoming days for the Synod on the Family.
[Video ends]
Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers, the Pope, in that video clip had several things to say about the Bible.
Brother Greg Worthen: Brother Bob, I think it’s a good point that he’s finally giving directives to his members to start to read the Bible. I think that’s important. In fact, if I heard it, right, everyone that was in the Basilica, or in St. Peter’s Square that day got a free Bible, if I’m not mistaken. So at least he’s giving that kind of directive to have their members open the Bible and to begin to read it for themselves.
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Greg Worthen
Miami, Florida
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: Yes, that’s right.
Brother Johnny Martin: And, you know, Brothers, if I may add on to that, we would like to invite all of our friends who are members of the Roman Catholic Church to join us, inside the Iglesia Ni Cristo where we are conducting Bible studies or the reading and the study of the words of God basically, every day. We do it in the house of worship, we do it in the homes of the members of the Church Of Christ, and even in the homes of our friends, who would like to join us in the study of the words of God. So we invite everybody to come and join us in the setting of the Bible.
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Johnny Martin
Quezon City, Philippines
Minister of the Gospel
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Bob Pellien: Yes, the Bible is always paramount in the life of members of the Church Of Christ. Now, Brothers, why is it that we agree with the Pope when he told, when he announced there to that assembly that everybody should have a Bible. Everybody should read it everyday. Why do we agree that everyone, including our Catholic friends should read the Bible?
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, Brother Bob, and dear friends, the reason is, what that is, what is good and pleasing to the Lord our God, as we can read here in First Timothy 2: 3 and 4.
This is good and pleases God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.
[I Timothy 2:3-4 NLT]
Brother Johnny Martin: So we agree that not only Catholics but actually everybody should read the Bible. People really should have a great interest in the words of God that are recorded or written here in the Holy Bible, and that’s because, you know, God wants everybody to be saved. But for everyone to be saved, people need to know and understand the truth.
[On screen graphic]
Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Bob Pellien: So Brother Ruben, that’s what God wants. He wants everyone then to pick up the Bible and read it.
Brother Ruben Bustos: Yes, Brother that’s what our Lord God wants in order for people to be saved. It must be based on the truth recorded in The Holy Scriptures.
Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Greg, what’s the truth?
Brother Greg Worthen: Well, the truth is very simple. As we read in John 17 and 17. It’s clarified here by our Lord Jesus Christ:
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Greg Worthen
Miami, Florida
Minister of the Gospel
Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
[John 17:17 NKJV]
Brother Greg Worthen: So the truth that is needed, of course, for our salvation is that which is contained in the words of God, or as we commonly call the Bible.
Brother Ruben Bustos: But if I may add, Brother Greg, what the Bible mentions, or our Father mentions in the book of Deuteronomy, chapter 12, verse 32, this is what he mentions:
Diligently do everything I command you, the way I command you: don’t add to it; don’t subtract from it.
[Deuteronomy 12: 32 MSG]
Brother Ruben Bustos: It is very clear here that yes, God wants man to be saved. It must be based on the truth. But we have to understand that he has instructions when it comes to His truth or his words written in the Bible. In fact, God stressed that we should do everything that He commands that we should not add to add or subtract from it.
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Ruben Bustos
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Greg, was that particular instruction or prohibition of God not to add or subtract from his commands, was it something that was only instructed by God like during the Old Testament times, for example?
Brother Greg Worthen: No Brother Bob, in fact, we also hear this in the writings of the apostles, as it’s reiterated in the Christian era, in First Corinthians 4:6:
Now I have applied all this, [about parties and factions] to myself and Apollos for your sakes, brethren, so that from what I have said of us [as illustrations], you may learn [to think of men in accordance with the Scripture and] not to go beyond that which is written…
[I Corinthians 4:6 AMP]
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Greg Worthen: So whether it is a commandment of God in ancient times, or even in our time, in the Christian era, God’s strict instruction regarding his words, and the usage of his words remains the same. We are not at liberty to add to or take away from what is written in the Holy Scriptures.
Brother Bob Pellien: So it was something the apostles taught as well. But Brother Johnny, would there be any consequence, if that was disregarded? What will happen if someone does add or subtract, or as the topic of our discussion for today contradicts God’s words?
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, the consequence of contradicting what God says in the Bible is very severe. As we can read here in the Bible in the book of Revelation, chapter 22, verses 18 and 19:
I [personally solemnly] warn everyone who listens to the statements of the prophecy [the predictions and the constellations and admonitions pertaining to them] in this book: If anyone shall add anything to them, God will add and lay upon him the plagues (the afflictions and the calamities) that are recorded and described in this book. And if anyone cancels or takes away from the statements of the book of this prophecy [these predictions relating to Christ’s kingdom and its speedy triumph, together with the consolations and admonitions or warnings pertaining to them], God will cancel and take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness (purity and hallowedness) which are described and promised in this book.
[Revelation 22: 18-19 AMP]
Brother Johnny Martin: So Brothers and dear friends, there indeed are consequences to adding to or subtracting from the words of God that are recorded in the Holy Bible. As we’ve read here in the passages, if someone would be adding to the words of God, well, the consequences this, God will be adding to him plagues and the most severe plague or calamity that could befall a person is to be punished by the Lord God there in the lake of fire.
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Johnny Martin: Now, what about the consequence, it won’t be subtracting we’re taking away from the words of God that are recorded in The Holy Bible? Well, the consequences is this, God will take away their share or their part from the tree of life. Basically, if someone adds to the Word of God from the Bible, or in the Bible or subtracts from the Word of God in the Bible, that person will not receive salvation.
Brother Bob Pellien: Yes, there’s definitely consequences, Brothers. That’s really clearly what the Bible is depicting there. You can’t get away with just changing what the scripture says. And that’s why there may be those that would say that, Oh, well, you’re just being nitpicky, just trying to be so exact what the Bible says.
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: What choice does a person have if they want to embrace the teachings of our Almighty God? They got to come out and compare what they’re being taught to what the Bible actually says. So, dear friends, that’s why in the Church Of Christ we teach by…Brothers, what is the format of our teaching inside the Church Of Christ?
Brothers: Question and Answer, Brother Bob.
Brother Bob Pellien: Exactly. We ask the questions, turn to the pages of the Holy Scriptures for the answers rather than giving our own opinions.
Brother Ruben, is there really a biblical basis though, for someone really to check the scriptures like we’re saying and can compare what their preacher or their religious organization is telling them is really based on the truths recorded in the Bible? Does the Bible instruct us to do that?
Brother Ruben Bustos: Well, yes, Brother Bob. In fact, if people would use the Bible, or rather consult the Holy Scriptures, with regards to how they could receive salvation, they are in fact following the instruction of our Savior Himself, our Lord Jesus Christ. In fact, we can read that here in the book of John chapter 5, verse 39, our Lord Jesus Christ gives us instruction:
You search the Scriptures, because you think you will find eternal life in them. The Scriptures tell about me,
[John 5:39 CEV]
Brother Ruben Bustos: According to our Lord Jesus Christ, His instruction is very clear that we should search the Scriptures meaning to say, we should consult the Holy Scriptures, when we talk about salvation, or anything that we need to know regarding our Lord God and our responsibility, which is to serve Him. That’s why we invite our dear friends or dear viewers to do, to compare your beliefs to what the Bible teaches. In fact, we would not lose anything, but we would gain everything, which is none other than salvation.
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Greg, why is it so important for people to make that kind of comparison that Brother Ruben’s discussing? Maybe a person should just go along with whatever is most convenient? Why such a stringent comparison with what’s actually recorded in the Bible? Why do we have to give this so much, so much attention?
Brother Greg Worthen: That is because Brother Bob, there are those who will contradict what God has stated through His words. And God depicts this as we read through his prophet Isaiah 5 and 20, this is the decree:
How horrible it will be for those who call evil good and good evil, who turn darkness into light and light into darkness who turn what is bitter into something sweet and what is sweet into something bitter.
[Isaiah 5:20 GW]
Brother Greg Worthen: So well, as we know the Word of God is truth. So if there are ideas, or there are teachings, that are not in line with the truth, then it must be accepted as a lie.
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Johnny Martin: Now there’s something very important I’d like to add, Brother Bob, if I may. If people believe a lie, then the source of that teaching is no longer God, but God’s enemy. And we can read that here in John 8:44:
You come from your father, the devil, and you desire to do what your father wants you to do. The devil was a murderer from the beginning. He has never been truthful. He doesn’t know what the truth is. Whenever he tells a lie, he’s doing what comes naturally to him. He’s a liar and the father of lies.
[John 8:44 GW]
Brother Johnny Martin: So dear friends, people really do have to be very careful, because they might no longer be following the commandments of God, which are the true words of God that aren’t recorded in the Bible, they might already be following the wrong teachings from the enemy of God, the devil.
Brother Bob Pellien: So dear friends, when we come back, we’re going to compare next, the teachings of the Bible with what the Catholic church actually teaches. Stay with us.
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INC International Edition
Brother Bob Pellien: Welcome back, dear friends to this program, the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. So far in our study, it’s been clearly established God’s teachings recorded here in the Bible.
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
[On screen graphic]
Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Bob Pellien: He doesn’t have to want them to be added to or subtracted from, and that we have to give it its due importance and value especially when it comes to acquiring the knowledge of the truth. Brothers, having established that clear policy thus far. Let’s go now to discuss some specific contradictions that some organizations like, for example, the Catholic Church are actually doing when it comes to the teachings of the Bible. Brother Ruben, what’s one of the teachings of the Bible that the Catholic Church contradicts?
Brother Ruben Bustos: If we read what our Lord Jesus Christ mentions here in the book of Matthew chapter 23, verse 9, this is what we could read, Brother Bob:
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Ruben Bustos
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
And do not call anyone [in the church] on earth father, for you have one Father, Who is in heaven.
[Matthew 23:9 AMP]
Brother Ruben Bustos: Our Lord Jesus Christ made it very clear that we’re not supposed to call anyone in the Church on earth “father”, because there’s only one father, which is none other than God who is in heaven.
Brother Bob Pellien: Yes, but what if Brothers for example, [if] they would say, well, Christ certainly wouldn’t forbid us in calling the husband of our mother, or our birth father as father, he wouldn’t prohibit that, right?
Brother Greg Worthen: He would not prohibit Brother Bob. In fact, He gives a teaching regarding this or the Apostles rather in Hebrews 12 and 9, this is what the Apostle stated as we read:
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Greg Worthen
Miami, Florida
Minister of the Gospel
Moreover, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we yielded [to them] and respected [them for training us]. Shall we not much more cheerfully submit to the Father of spirits and so [truly] live?
[Hebrews 12:9 AMP]
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Greg Worthen: We’re not forbidden by the apostles, or the teachings of the apostles to call our biological father or biological dad as father, what is against the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ is to call or address someone as our spiritual father.
Brother Bob Pellien: So clearly, there’s a distinction between the biological father and spiritual father. But then Brothers are there those who actually call themselves or refer to themselves as spiritual fathers?
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, the answer to that question, Brother Bob is yes, there are. Who indeed are those who refer to themselves as father, or father of spirits or spiritual fathers? Well, I have with me a book entitled Radio Replies, I have a copy of the book right here with me. Radio Replies, Volume 3, the man who wrote the book is a Catholic priest by the name of Lesley Rumble. This is what it says on page 75:
[Radio Replies, Vol. III, Lesley Rumble, Page 75]
“Catholics rightly, therefore, call the priest ‘father,’ not to the exclusion of their Father in heaven, but as a manifestation on earth of the supreme Fatherhood of God in the spiritual order,..
Brother Johnny Martin: So friends, the Pope and the priests of the Roman Catholic Church, are instructing members of the Catholic Church to call them father, because according to them, they are a manifestation on earth, of the supreme of fatherhood of God, in the spiritual order.
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Johnny Martin
Quezon City, Philippines
Minister of the Gospel
[On screen graphic]
Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Johnny Martin: But you know, there’s something very important to remember here, dear friends, what did our Lord Jesus Christ teach just a moment ago, in Matthew 23:9 he said, ‘Call no one on earth your father, because you have only one Father, He who is in heaven.’
Brother Greg Worthen: I think it’s more important than for, for all of our friends, for example, who are Catholics to compare. You know, this is what Jesus says, Don’t call anyone on earth, your father in that spiritual order. This is what Catholic authorities are saying. Who should we follow? Who should we obey? And of course, it should be our Lord Jesus Christ.
Brother Bob Pellien: Right, right.
Brother Ruben Bustos: I believe the statement there, Brother Bob, if I may, what they were mentioning, was sort of a blasphemous statement because basically, they’re saying there that their priests are basically trying to make themselves equal, with none other than our Lord God in heaven.
Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers, let’s give, let’s pause for a moment here. Let’s give the Catholic Church authorities the priests a chance to, to respond to what we have just discussed, to respond to what the Bible teaches regarding the fatherhood and the spiritual fatherhood that they call and call upon themselves. Let’s take a look at this clip:
[Video starts]
{Source YouTube/Joanne church]
Female VO: Why are Catholic priests called Father? Is there something in the Bible that says we’re not to do that?
Priest: Yeah, there is actually our Lord, one of the pastors of the Gospel says, ‘call no one your father.’ He was talking about the majesty of God, and what he observed and others’ behavior that led one to believe they were trying to replace God and become the focus of people’s attention rather than they’re calling attention to the one higher to the God in heaven who gives us life. But the use of the term father in terms of leaders in the community is as old as apostolic times. And certainly, the writers immediately after the generation of the apostles, it was in common usage that leaders of the community or spiritual directors, people of that nature were called father.
[Video ends]
Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers, what can you say about the response of that priest?
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, Brother Bob, the first thing I noticed is the question that was being asked to this particular Catholic priest, the questions were, why are Catholic priests called Father? Isn’t there something in the Bible that says we are not to do that?
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Johnny Martin: And then the very first thing that this particular Catholic priest says is, yeah, there is actually, yeah, there is actually and then he goes on to cite the very verse that we were looking at earlier, Matthew 23:9 and where it says, He said, Our Lord, and one of the passages of the Gospel says, Call no one, your father. So we have here, this particular Catholic priest, acknowledging basically that what they are doing or practicing in the Roman Catholic religion is in contradiction to what our Lord Jesus Christ taught. I thought that was very interesting.
Brother Bob Pellien: Yes. And what else is noticeable is that his reasoning was, well, there was a lot of people during that time that were calling their community leaders, father and all that. Well, Jesus said, Don’t do that. So he’s justifying it by saying, well, a lot of people were doing it. So it must be okay. Instead of going to what Jesus said, which was, don’t do it. Very clear and profound. contradiction, no doubt.
Brother Ruben Bustos: In fact, whether Bob, he has also mentioned that in the time of the apostles, they were doing that as well. But I’m pretty sure that the apostles would not go against the instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ. Have not called anyone inside the Church on earth, their father. So again, you know, the Catholic Church, it proves there, that they’re just filled with contradictions.
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Ruben Bustos
Los Angeles, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: Precisely. Precisely.
Brother Greg Worthen: Well, and it’s very, it’s very plainly seen. We cannot read any apostolic letter, any apostolic writing from the apostles when they wish they would be addressed as “father,” because they know that it’s wrong, and it’s against the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ. In fact, I like to read Brother Bob exactly what our Lord Jesus Christ taught his disciples and even his apostles about what they should or should not be called. This is what Jesus taught them in 23 and 8, here in Matthew:
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Greg Worthen
Miami, Florida
Minister of the Gospel
But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi;’ for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren.
[Matthew 23:8 NKJV]
Brother Greg Worthen: Our Lord Jesus Christ is very clear here that when it comes to how we should address one another, we should address one another as ‘brethren,’ and not by means of various titles.
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Bob Pellien: Brother, that’s why we call each other brother and sister inside the Church Of Christ, Ministers inside the church are also called what?
Brother Greg Worthen: Brothers.
Brother Bob Pellien: That’s it.
Brother Greg Worthen: Congregates dressed the ministers the same way as we address one another because to Christ, all of us, our brethren.
Brother Bob Pellien: So thank you for that Brothers. And let’s take a look further if there are any other commands of God that the Catholic Church is simply outright contradicting. But first, let’s take a break. Dear friends, stay with us here on the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition.
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INC International Edition
Brother Bob Pellien: Welcome back to your friends to the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition wherein today, we’ve been discussing the various contradictions that the Catholic Church has in their teachings, when her teachings are compared to what’s recorded in The Holy Bible.
[On screen graphic]
Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Bob Pellien: Aside from what we’ve already discussed thus far, Brothers, Brother Ruben, have you found any other of the teachings of Catholicism which truly run in contradiction to what the Bible says?
Brother Ruben Bustos: Yes, Brother Bob. In fact, if you read from the Bible, once again, in Exodus chapter 20:3 through 5 it mentions the following:
Do not worship any god except me. Do not make idols that look like anything in the sky, or on Earth, or in the ocean under the earth. Don’t bow down and worship idols, I am the Lord your God, and I demand all your love. If you reject me, I will punish your families for three or four generations.
[Exodus 20:3-5 CEV]
Brother Ruben Bustos: It is quite clear from the instruction of Our Lord God Brother Bob. He mentioned that we should not make any idols or images for the purpose of bowing down or worshiping these things.
Brother Bob Pellien: Maybe they wouldn’t admit to worshiping them. Brother Greg supposed they would say for example, well, we’re not actually worshiping these statues and scapulars, rosaries, and all these things, we’re just venerating them?
Brother Greg Worthen: Well, we’ll read…
Brother Bob Pellien: Which is, by the way, what they often do say, we’ve heard them say that.
Brother Greg Worthen: That’s true. They do say that. But this is what their authorities say in response, we’ll read it in the book entitled, The Faith of Our Fathers, on page 164 to 165:
[The Faith of Our Fathers, Pages 164-165]
“It is in this sense, I take it, that scholastic writers have spoken of the same worship being paid to images of Christ as to Christ, our Lord Himself; for the act which is called the worship of an image is really the worship of Christ Himself, through and in the presence of an image and by occasion of it;…”
Brother Greg Worthen: So what their members may be saying is one thing, but Catholic authorities say something completely different. That they do worship those images. And that’s what they’ve stated here.
Brother Bob Pellien: So, they clearly admitted then, Brother Johnny?
Brother Johnny Martin: Yes, Brother Bob but you know, there would still be those who are inside the Roman Catholic Church who would just flat out deny that they’re actually worshiping graven images. But you know, as the expression goes, actions speak louder than words.
[On screen graphic]
Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Johnny Martin: So with their words, they may say that they are not worshiping graven images, but with their actions are actually demonstrating that they are because kneeling down is an act of worship. And we can read that in the Bible here in Psalms 95:6:
Oh come, let us worship and bow down; Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.
[Psalms 95:6 NKJV]
Brother Johnny Martin: The Bible clearly shows us again, right here on the verse that we read, that bowing down or kneeling down is an act of worship. So what our friends inside the Roman Catholic Church are doing when they’re actually bowing down and kneeling down before graven images? Well, that’s a violation of the teaching of the Holy Bible or the Holy Scripture. It was very clearly mentioned in the passage that was read earlier by Brother Reuben, how God specifically prohibits doing that to any graven image.
Brother Bob Pellien: So it doesn’t matter so much what they say, what’s important is the violation that they’re actually doing?
Brother Glenn Bustos: In fact, Brother Bob, if I would, if I may, if I may add to Brother Johnny’s point, I would like to read a Catholic book, we go back to actually what Brother Greg read earlier, The Faith of Our Fathers, we could read this in page 164.
[The Faith of Our Fathers, Page 164]]
“The doctrine of the Catholic Church regarding the use of sacred images is clearly and fully expressed by the General Council of Trent in the following words: ’The images of Christ and His Virgin Mother, and of other Saints, are to be had and retained, especially in churches; …the honor which is given them is referred to the originals which they represent, so that by the images which we kiss, and before which we uncover our heads or kneel, we adore Christ and venerate His Saints, whose likeness they represent.’ …The Pagans looked upon an idol as a god endowed with intelligence and the other attributes of the Deity.”
Brother Glenn Bustos: Here, they could not reason out Brother Bob and say that, well, they are not worshiping them. They’re only venerating them. They’re only honoring them. But in fact, their worship is for our Lord God.
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Glenn Bustos: The mere fact that they kneel before these images proves that they worship these things. That’s why what they say differs from what they are doing. Again, a clear violation of the instructions of Our Lord God or like what we were talking about today, a contradiction of the teachings of the Holy Scriptures.
Brother Bob Pellien: So there’s no way they could just say that they’re giving respect then right, Brother Greg?
Brother Greg Worthen: No, Brother Bob, there’s a clear cut contradiction. In fact, if we go further into their teachings, I’d like to also read or cite a book, Catechism of Christian Doctrine, No. 3, in conformity with the decrees of the plenary country of the Code of 1918. And this is what is stated here, as we read:
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Greg Worthen
Miami, Florida
Minister of the Gospel
[Catechism of Christian Doctrine No. 3, Nihil Obstat: A.G. Casas, Censor Librorum. Imprimatur: Rufino J. Santos, DD. Page 87]
“Ought We To Worship Holy Images?” We should have, particularly in our churches, images of our Lord, as also of the Blessed Virgin and the saints, and we should pay them due honor and veneration.”
Brother Greg Worthen: What we should take note of is their actual question, are we not to have or worship holy images? So by their own admission, they would say and they show that they are worshiping these images, which is in direct contradiction and violation of the very commandment of God we read earlier.
Brother Bob Pellien: And in the very definition of the word “veneration,” it is by definition, a form of worship.
[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: Our dear friends, let’s take a look at another of their teachings. Brothers, let’s take a look at the Catholic Church’s teaching about God Himself. Let’s take a look at what they teach and compare it to what’s recorded in the Bible. And the friends. That’s where we’ll pick up in just a moment as the Iglesia NI Cristo International Edition continues.
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INC International Edition
Brother Bob Pellien: Welcome back dear friends to the Iglesia NI Cristo International Edition wherein today we’re comparing what the Catholic Church teaches relative to what the Bible teaches well, so that we all could see what the Catholic teachings are, are they following? Or are they contradicting what is recorded in The Holy Bible?
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Bob Pellien: So Brothers before we discuss the Catholic Church’s teaching about God, which we presented at the just before the break, let’s take a moment to first watch this clip about that:
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[Source: YouTube/Israelites Unite]
Male Host: Well, Alex, as far as meetings go, it doesn’t get more historic than this one. As soon as we saw the two Popes together, we knew that this was one of a kind. They were both dressed in white, of course, the only difference being Pope Francis was wearing a little sash and a little cape there. Pope Benedict 16 The emeritus, of course, walked to the helipad in his walking cane looking very frail, waiting for Pope Francis to arrive in his white helicopter and they embraced in a long embrace. That was one of the first moving moments of this historic meeting. Because after that, they went into the Summer Residence and went to the private chapel to pray together. And Pope Benedict 16 offered Pope Francis the stool that is reserved for the Popes to pray in front of the altar. And Pope Francis said, ‘No, we are brothers. And we’re going to pray together. And so they did. They kneeled together on the same stool and a very symbolic moment, of course. So then they went into the library, and Pope Francis gave Pope Benedict 16, a small icon of Our Lady of humility. And he said, Well, the first person I thought of when I saw this icon was you. Well, of course, again, expressing and extending his gratitude for the eight years of his papacy. And they went on into a very informal lunch, and then he flew back to the Vatican with the same helicopter. Well, I must say to the great disappointment of the hundreds of people that gathered in Castel Gandolfo hoping for the Pope or the Popes together to appear on that balcony, Alex
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Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers, did you notice what the two Popes were kneeling down and praying to there?
Brother Greg Worthen: Yes. Looks like, like the Black Madonna or something like that? Yes, instead of kneeling before God if they’re kneeling before images, which is exactly what they’re teaching as well.
Brother Bob Pellien: Precisely, precisely.
Brother Johnny Martin: What was interesting, that I noticed Brother Bob is, at the beginning of our program, we had that video clip of, of the Pope holding a Bible and he’s telling the members of the Roman Catholic Church to read the Bible every day. And the man that is telling members of the Catholic Church to do that is now showing right there in the video clip, we just watch, that he himself is not practicing what the Bible actually teaches, because there he is kneeling down, you know, the two Popes kneeling down there before that image.
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Johnny Martin
Quezon City, Philippines
Minister of the Gospel
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Glenn Bustos: In fact, Brother Bob, if you noticed, in the video, there was this anticipation by the Popes to pray, but they were excited to pray to the Black Madonna. But I didn’t, from my vantage point, I didn’t see anything about being excited to pray to Our Lord God.
Brother Bob Pellien: Right, right. And Brothers, when the Catholic Church is teaching to the population of Catholic members, who do they teach to them who God is? Are they teaching them that God is the statue of the Black Madonna? Are these other statues and images? What do they teach to the people who is God to Roman Catholicism?
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Glenn Bustos: Brother Bob, we can read the teaching of the Catholic Church regarding their belief who god is from their book entitled The faith of Our Fathers, we could read the following:
[The Faith of Our Fathers, Page 1]
The Catholic Church teaches that there is but one God… In this one God there are three distinct Persons, -the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, who are perfectly equal to each other.”
Brother Glenn Bustos: Here they explain Brother Bob who their belief is, when it comes to who the true God is. They believe that there is one God but he’s divided into three personages, namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And they believed these three persons are co-equal when it comes to power.
Brother Bob Pellien: But Brother Ruben is that what the Bible teaches about God?
Brother Glenn Bustos: In fact, Brother it is a contradiction of what our Lord Jesus Christ taught.
Brother Bob Pellien: Another contradiction.
Brother Glenn Bustos: Yes, in fact, if we read what is recorded in the book of John, chapter 17, verses 3 and 1, our Lord Jesus Christ mentions the following:
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son also may glorify you,
[John 17: 3 and 1 NKJV]
Brother Glenn Bustos: According to what we have read, our Lord Jesus Christ made it very clear that there’s only one God.
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Glenn Bustos: In fact, if we were following intently to what our Lord Jesus Christ mentioned, he said that they may know you. He did not include Himself, He did not include the Holy Spirit. In fact, when He introduced the true God, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, ‘Father.’ We can see here then that it contradicts what the Catholic teaches which says that the true God is divided into three personages.
Brother Bob Pellien: But Brother Johnny, who would have the Catholic Church authorities would respond to that and say, well, it was the apostles who taught that God was a Trinitarian, or a three-person God.
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, the first thing I’d like to say, Brother Bob is, the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ would not teach something that contradicts what was taught by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. So as the Lord Jesus Christ did not teach the trinity doctrine, neither did the apostles teach the trinity doctrine,
Brother Bob Pellien: What makes you so sure Brother Johnny?
Brother Johnny Martin: Well, we can read right here in the Bible in First Corinthians 8:6, this is what the Apostle say:
yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.
[Corinthians 8:6 GNT]
Brother Johnny Martin: So dear friends, clearly, the apostles are showing right here, that they believe in only one true God. And in this passage, the apostles did not only make mention that they believe in one true God, but the identify who that one true God is. And who is it? The apostle says, right here it is the father, who is the creator of all things.
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Johnny Martin: So the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, were not Trinitarians they did not believe in a Triune God, they did not believe that God is composed of three persons, but they’re very clear right here, the Father, and only the father is the one true God. That’s what the apostles believe. And that is, by the way, also, what the Iglesia Ni Cristo believes.
Brother Bob Pellien: Is the Trinity word or concept even recorded anywhere in the Bible, Brother Greg?
Brother Greg Worthen: No, it’s not recorded anywhere in the Bible that the term trinity itself cannot be found in the Bible.
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Greg Worthen
Miami, Florida
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Greg Worthen: That teaching cannot be found in the Bible, which is why I’d like to go back to those we read, we saw that clip earlier, I should say regarding the pope giving out Bibles to all those who are in attendance, and he’s clamoring to his followers to read the Bible.
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Greg Worthen: Yes, of course, read the Bible, but really compare what it says. Because when comparing it through the guidance of those who are commissioned to preach it, you’re going to know the truth that is revealed in the Word of God, particularly, for example, concerning one of the most important doctrines of the entire Bible, and that is, who is the true God? Or who the true God is?
Brother Bob Pellien: Right. How about in the time of the prophets? Were they teaching a Trinitarian? Or did they have an understanding of a triune God? How about back in more ancient times Brother Greg?
Brother Greg Worthen: Well, the prophets are going to teach the same God that was taught by our Lord Jesus Christ and His apostles, because the word of God has no contradiction. That being said, let us go to the teachings of the prophets, and hear what they taught concerning the true God. In Malachi 2:10:
Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us?…
[Malachi 2:10 NKJV]
Brother Greg Worthen: So the prophets themselves teach that there is only one God, who is the father and not a triune God.
Brother Bob Pellien: Right, right. That’s clear.
Brother Glenn Bustos: Brother Bob, if we notice that there’s a contiguity, from the ancient times to the Christian era, that the faith or the belief or the teaching that the true God actually is one, and that is none other than the Father in heaven.
Brother Johnny Martin: So it’s pretty simple right here Brothers, and dear friends. You compare the teaching of the Catholic Church about God and what the Bible actually teaches. And you see that they don’t actually match.
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Johnny Martin: You know, Catholicism teaches one God, but made up of three persons within the Bible says one God, and it’s only the Father. So we have to decide for ourselves. Which one are we going to accept? Which one will we embrace? And we inside the Iglesia Ni Cristo choose to follow what the Bible actually says that there’s just one true God. And it is the Father only.
Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers, but what about that book that you read from their authorities, the authorities of the Catholic Church. You read earlier that they’re claiming that each so-called divine person or element 1/3, of the Trinitarian God that they are teaching is equal with the other two parts.
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: In other words, that the Father is co-equal with the son is co-equal with the with the Holy Spirit– Is that a contradiction? Or is that what the Bible presents?
Brother Glenn Bustos: Actually, Brother Bob, but you know, again, it’s a constant theme, most especially in our studies today, that the Catholic Church’s teachings contradict the teachings of the Holy Scriptures. In fact, if we read the book of John, chapter 14, verse 28, our Lord Jesus Christ mentioned mentions the following, He says this:
You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.
[John 14:28 NKJV]
Brother Glenn Bustos: Here our Lord Jesus Christ teaches that the Father is greater than Him.
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Today’s Topic: Contradicting the Bible
Brother Glenn Bustos: Now, if we compare this to what the Bible or rather what the Catholic Church teaches, they say that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are co-equal. But if we compare it to the Bible, our Lord Jesus Christ mentions that the Father is greater than Him. Hence, this is proof that the true God is none other than the Father in heaven.
Brother Bob Pellien: You know, Brother Ruben, that just presents yet another one of the clear contradictions of what’s recorded in the Bible relative to what is taught by Roman Catholicism. And you know, Brothers, all the things that you’ve been presenting in our discussion. It’s really just a sample.
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Bob Pellien
San Francisco, California
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Bob Pellien: It’s just an idea of the multitude of contradictions that are being presented and taught by Catholicism to the world, and are really in opposition to the truths contained in the Holy Scriptures. But Brothers, here’s the thing. Why do we spend this effort that we have in our discussion today in pointing this out? You know, many might think that, well, maybe we’re just trying to hurt the feelings of someone or we want to show that, oh, we were better than some or something like that. Well, none of those things are our concern. But there is a biblical reason why we must, we have to point out these contradictions. And the biblical reason and basis for it, dear friends, is mentioned by, of course, none other than our Lord Jesus Christ. And I like to cite exactly what he said about that. John, chapter seven, beginning in verse 17:
If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him.
[John 7:17-18 NKJV]
Brother Bob Pellien: The reason then, dear friends, is because if you want to do the will of God and His blessings flow in your life, you’ve got to follow the doctrines that God has given. So we’ve got to point out if there are contradictions being taught in the world. We’ve got to point out if there are things in opposition to the truths in the Holy Scriptures, so that everyone may choose to do the will of God without additions without subtractions without any changes, because that is what will give glory to our Lord God.
Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers, thank you very much for all your contributions to our discussions. We’d like to thank Brother Greg Worthen in Miami, Florida, Brother Ruben Bustos in Los Angeles, California, as well as Brother Johnny Martin in Quezon City, Philippines. Brothers, thank you very much for all your contributions to our program and discussion for today.
Brother Bob Pellien: And as dear friends, the apostle Peter said to members of the Church Of Christ: you will be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you’re living the way you are first Peter 3:15. Well, that does it for us here on the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. We hope you’ll join us again next time. This is Bob Pellien. Thanks for watching, and we invite you to join us for a short prayer.
Brother Greg Worthen: We thank you Father for this time given to us through this program to not only study your laws and commandments, but also know the truth that is revealed in them. May you continue to bless each and every one who joins us in our programs. May you continue to open their hearts and minds Dear Father that we may fully come to know of your will and commandments. And most especially, we may come to know You Father, through your teachings so that we may have the proper understanding necessary for us to gain the eternal life that you’ve promised through your holy words. Please continue to grant blessings to each and every one who’ve joined us here today through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
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