Christian Media: Where Truth Meets You

Making Friends

It's hard to maintain good friendships when we spend so much of our time prioritizing other parts of our life. In this episode we talk about friendships.


Heart And Soul – Making Friends

Martin Zerrudo: You’re listening to Heart and Soul. A podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Church Of Christ. I’m your host Martin Zerrudo. 

[Show Open]

Martin Zerrudo: With me again is my co-host, Shannon. Hey, Shannon!

Shannon Santamaria: Hi, Martin! I’m so happy to be here.

Martin: So let’s dive right into our episode today. Today, we’re talking about friends. Now, I know you can relate, Shannon, the pandemic has definitely changed how we socialize, especially those socially distancing mandates and wearing masks and a lot of different restrictions that we had to experience both here in Toronto and over there on the West Coast.

Shannon Santamaria: That’s right. I mean, some and even today use masks as a fashion statement because of the mandates. And it just makes us feel safer. But before that—well, I mean, what did you do before the pandemic to, you know, hang out with your friends, Martin? I kind of want to see how fun it was to look back and to see how back and to see how things are now.

Martin: Back in the day?

Shannon: Yeah.

Martin: Oh, definitely. In my mid to late teens, it was all about hanging out at different people’s houses, playing games, playing sports, watching TV. And then in my early to mid twenties, it was honestly being active in a lot of different Church activities. Interacting with different officers, doing visitations across not only Canada but also in the North Eastern part of the United States. And then a little bit later into my twenties and early thirties, it was really just, making your circle a little bit smaller and just having, dinner, you know, talking over coffee or bubble tea and and just, slowing down, not always going out so often and spending more quality time with a closer knit group of people, for sure. How about you?

Shannon: Yeah, I think before the pandemic, definitely before 2020. I don’t necessarily even remember being at home all that much. I was always out, whether it was experiencing a new event or going to a sports event or hanging out with friends or just, enjoying my time, being in person with them. And I think you made a good reference about how, you know, the way you hang out kind of changes over time.

Martin: Absolutely. You know, it’s really interesting to think about how much things changed from then to now, not only in the differences in our generation, the differences in the age group that you’re in as you get older. But a big thing that has remained consistent despite all of these changes for me, at least, in maintaining my friendships, is that I do occasionally, you know, interact with my friends online, whether it’s playing video games, whether it’s discussing movies and TV shows. The ability to connect on the internet has really been a significant means to to maintain these friendships across a wide variety of different activities. What about you Shannon? I know you’re super active on social media.

Shannon: I know! I’m guilty as charged, right. I think the pandemic really accelerated my use on social media. A lot of the time I’m making friends on social media and making friends with, you know, other members of the Church Of Christ who I haven’t met yet or that I’m excited to meet. There’s also some, you know, precautionary steps that I should take in making new friends online, definitely. I think that’s what’s awesome about being in the Church. You have that kind of same value and same love that everyone has inside the Church.

Martin: That’s right. But something has happened over the last couple of years. 

Shannon: Yes. 

Martin: In these early… late 2000-teens and early 2000-20s. Can you talk a little bit about what happened there?

Shannon: My life completely changed! No, I’m kidding—I mean, it did. But I guess it changed in the sense that, you know, looking back, the way that I make friends and the way that I hang out with them is entirely different to how I used to. And not just because I am growing up and I’m a little bit more mature, but also because, you know, the circumstances have changed. I have to make sure that I’m always safe and my friends are safe, whether it’s, you know, some sort of ailment or some sort of situation. And it’s pretty interesting to talk about how I kind of managed to keep some of those friendships throughout the pandemic era. But I know that there’s some people that, you know, maybe have fallen out of touch. I know that I have fallen out of touch with a couple of my friends because of that lack of human interaction.

Martin: For sure. Very true, Shannon. And sometimes it’s pretty hard to cope with those emotions, especially because we were stuck at home for such a long period of time. And I think what made it even, especially, more challenging is, we weren’t always able to go to the places of worship or the chapels [or] the houses of worship to attend worship service. Thankfully, you know, the Church Administration had really foreseen and made sure that we were equipped for situations like this. Allowed us to continue to attend worship service nonstop during the pandemic by means of worshiping online. But I think in some areas it was open and in some areas it was closed. And then some areas it was open and then it closed for six months, and then there were certain zones or different colors or phases of being open and closed. So it wasn’t always very clear what to expect.

Shannon: I’m getting war flashbacks. No, I’m just kidding. 

Martin: Right? It was, honestly, it was somewhat traumatizing having to go through such a difficult period of unknown. And I think, definitely –  

Shannon: And so quickly. 

Martin: – Yeah, and so quickly. So, it is hard to cope with those kinds of emotions because, you know, we were stuck at home. But I think definitely asking for help is the direction to take. Not only then for the many times that we reached out to our spiritual leaders, but even now. So let’s ask for some advice from our guest and minister of the gospel, Brother Felmar.

Brother Felmar Serreno: Hi, Martin. Hi, Shannon. Thank you for having me.

Shannon: Thank you for joining us!

Martin: Yeah, we’re so happy to have you Brother Felmar, of course a show favorite. For those of you who are new, Brother Felmar has joined us for episodes in the past and it’s always great to have you Brother Felmar. And I wanted to start by asking, what does the Bible say about friendships and companionship? Are there any examples in the Bible of close friends?

Brother Felmar: Good question, Martin. And there are! One example we can read about in the book of James, the chapter is 2, and the verse is 23. We’ll quote from the Living Bible: 

And so it happened just as the Scriptures say, that Abraham trusted God, and the Lord declared him good in God’s sight, and he was even called “the friend of God.”

[James 2:23 The Living Bible]

Brother Felmar: One of the servants of God who was blessed to be called the friend of God was Abraham. What’s the proof they were close friends? The Bible explains that Abraham trusted God and that the Lord declared him – Abraham – good in God’s sight. 

Do you know who else had close friends? Let’s go to the book of John, the chapter is 15, the verses are 13 and 15 in the God’s Word translation: 

The greatest love you can show is to give your life for your friends. I don’t call you servants anymore, because a servant doesn’t know what his master is doing. But I’ve called you friends because I’ve made known to you everything that I’ve heard from my Father.

[John 15:13,15 GOD’S WORD Translation]

Brother Felmar: Here, the Lord Jesus was speaking with His apostles. How is it that He considered and called His faithful apostles? As His friends.

Martin: That’s so amazing to hear. Really interesting to read that these close friendships exist even from such an older time in the past.

Shannon: Yeah. I think what I find intriguing, I guess, is that, people who lived a long time ago, before technology was even invented they didn’t have that kind of resource as a means of communication for friendships. And while today we have that technology to communicate with anyone from across the world, there are still friends that we’ve lost touch with because of those changes, especially because of the pandemic or, you know, life changes.

Brother Felmar: Actually, Shannon, if I can react to that. Technology definitely accelerates communication. And communication is a part of, you know, friendship, right? 

Shannon: Right.

Brother Felmar: Simple example. You know, back in the day, if you wanted to communicate with someone who was a far distance away from you, you’d write a letter, right? Snail mail. That’s pretty much all you could do. It would physically have to travel to get to the one that you’re writing to. Nowadays, because of technology, that process is accelerated. You can message someone. You can write a letter to someone. They’ll receive it almost instantaneously. 

However, the building blocks for meaningful friendships, it’s not based on technology per se. Rather the things that make up meaningful friendships, it’s taught by the Bible, right? To have love and concern for one another, to help each other when we’re in need, at communication, right? Having patience and understanding with one another. So, those are the things that really make meaningful friendships.

Martin: So, Brother Felmar, when you read those verses about friendship, for us, when we’re friends with people of this world, not all friendships last. You’re friends for a couple of months. Maybe you’re super, super close for a couple of years. And then for some reason you have a falling out. The friendship kind of fizzles out or friendships kind of just naturally fade on their own. 

Brother Felmar: Yeah, it does happen.

Martin: Yeah, it does happen. And I actually recently got a question last week, Brother Felmar. How do you deal with, like, a friendship breakup? Some friends that don’t last forever.

Brother Felmar: Yeah. Becoming out of touch with a friend, especially a good one, can be hard to recover from. Why are we sure? How does the Bible describe the importance of having a friend? In the book of Ecclesiastes, we can learn this, [in] chapter 4 verses 9 to 10 in the Unlocked Dynamic Bible, I quote the following.

Having someone work with you is better than being by yourself all the time. If you have a friend, he can help you to do your work. If you fall down, he can help you get up again. But if you fall down when you are alone, you will have trouble, because there is no one to help you stand up.

[Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 Unlocked Dynamic Bible]

Brother Felmar: According to the Bible, having someone to work with, especially a friend, is better than being alone all the time. A friend can help you to do your work, the Bible stated. What else is the benefit or advantage of having a friend? When a person falls down, his friend can help him get up again. On the other hand, what happens to a person who falls down and is alone? The Bible says you will have trouble because there is no one to help you. 

So learning from the Bible how valuable a friend is, it’s no surprise that it can hurt when you lose a friend. Losing a friend could be due to a regrettable experience, or death, or other factors in life, like changes brought about by the pandemic. Or chapters in our life that require our undivided attention, like getting married or having a baby, or confronting tests of faith.

Shannon: Definitely. I mean, one of the things that I do recall are those friends that, even though you haven’t talked to them during, you know, a certain amount of time—for a long period of time. Once you see them again, it’s like you guys never stop talking. It just feels like there was no time difference, I would say.

Brother Felmar: Right and that ties into what we were talking about earlier with technology. So that’s the great thing about technology. Not only does it accelerate communication, but it helps when it comes to those things, right? Things happen in life that are beyond our control. And sometimes neither party really wants the friendship to fizzle out, but things happen. But because of technology, we can take advantage of the opportunity, right? Wherever we may be in the world, you know, whatever the time zone may be. And you can try to rekindle that friendship, right? But the building blocks of what put it together that’s like what the Bible has been mentioning, you know, helping each other out, being there for each other. And going off of what you just stated, Shannon yeah, it’s pretty, it’s pretty cool, right? It almost, yeah. It’s really something that you can pick up from where you kind of left off, even if there’s been a year or a couple of years in between. Yeah, that’s a good friend for you, right?

Martin: Absolutely.

Shannon: Yes.

Martin: You know, when I hear about the utilization of the Internet, social media and being able to find friends online, I really think about the growth of the Church. And how, as kids, growing up, your circle of friends really at the time was limited to those who are in your local congregation. Then you have your big district events and you kind of expand that network of friendships and then you kind of look forward to seeing each other once or twice a year when all the local congregations come together for a Unity Games or a huge Musical Evangelical Mission or any kind of district activity that brings you closer together. 

But now, with the advent of the technology that connects us together through the Internet, you know, districts around the world, from Africa to California to Tokyo to Philippines to Canada, are connecting through meet and greets and different global activities where you’re able to literally interact with like minded and like faith people, Christians, around the world. And you already have that great foundation to build a friendship off of. Which makes it all the more easy that if for whatever reason a friendship fizzles out or it’s come to its natural progression—to its end. There’s a wealth, millions and millions of Christians out there that we have the ability to connect through Church activities led by the Church Administration.

Brother Felmar: Yeah, I think one of the keywords in what you just stated there, Martin, is the foundation, right? The foundation, we have the same faith, we uphold the same Christian values, and so it’s a big factor when it comes to making meaningful friendships, right? You are surrounding yourself with members of the Church Of Christ who have the same outlook as you, [who are] going in the same direction as you.

Martin: Absolutely.

Brother Felmar: We worship the same way. We practice our values the same way.

Martin: Yeah, no need for an icebreaker. All of that is kind of checked off already.

Brother Felmar: Right? Yeah, there exactly. And like what you mentioned those activities that we’re doing through the Christian Family Organizations, that’s the good way to use technology, right?

Martin: Absolutely.

Brother Felmar: Use it to continue to build and reinforce those connections or those friendships.

Martin: Now Brother Felmar some friendships end, and that’s okay. You know, it’s part of life. We grow up and we move on. But there are some friendships that are worth keeping. I myself actually recently in these last couple of months have gone through an experience where there were some very, very close friendships that, you know, for a time because of some of the challenges recently, not just with the pandemic, but with different directions sometimes you’re going in life, sometimes there’s misunderstandings or miscommunications. I kind of felt like, hey, this really important friendship of mine may be in jeopardy here. And I made a concerted effort for all of us to have a chance to reach out, to hash things out. And now our friendship is stronger than ever. So does the Bible say anything about that? Are there any kinds of friendships or friends that we probably want to keep and really fight for?

Brother Felmar: For sure, the Bible does describe that kind of friend who is worth keeping, and we can read about that here in the Book of Proverbs, chapter 17, verse 17.

A friend loves at all times. He is there to help when trouble comes. 

[Proverbs 17:17 New International Reader’s Version]

Brother Felmar: So based on the Bible, the friends we should make a conscious effort to keep are those who prove their genuine love and concern for us, especially by being there for us, or to lend a helping hand to help us out when trouble comes.

Shannon: I actually had kind of a question about that Brother Felmar. I mean, some of the friends that I’ve met during the pandemic and even on social media, you know, I’ve never met them. 

Brother Felmar: Right.

Shannon: So, what I want to know is how can I define that friend, you know, making new friends that I haven’t met. I know that I’ve made quite a lot.

Brother Felmar: Right, that goes back to what we were talking about earlier with technology is a great tool for accelerating communication, right. But when it comes to the building blocks of what makes a true friend that meaningful friendship, it’s something else when you meet each other, when you have these experiences together, right. It’s really hard to test the friendship out, if everything is virtual right? There’s an advantage there when it comes to technology. But like what the Bible stated here, a friend loves at all times, he is there to help when trouble comes. How do you test that out, over the internet?

Shannon: Exactly.

Martin: Yeah, that’s true. If I may add to that, actually. So I have a friend of mine and I’ve known him for maybe 15 years now and we started off, we became friends because we met on a Star Wars forum. We’re talking about how much we love Star Wars, how much we love the Star Wars video games. So we’re big fans of science fiction, science fantasy. And we continued that friendship by playing online together in various different games when we had time, of course within reason, nothing too excessive. But we enjoyed that friendship for a good, I want to say 12 years. And then the final movie came out for The Avengers, Infinity War or something like that. And he said, I want to visit Toronto and let’s watch it together with a bunch of our friends that we were gaming together with. 

Shannon: Oh wow.

Martin: And I said, I haven’t met you in 12 years. We’ve been gaming for this for the longest time. 

Brother Felmar: Wow.

Martin: So he visited us in Toronto and I planned it out Brother Felmar. I planned it out, Sister Shannon. We watched a movie the first night, then we had dinner the next night. And then the night before he flew out, the morning of, there was a livestream worship service with Brother Eduardo. And he was able to sit there beside me on the front row and he had his headset on so he could understand the worship service. Because he was from New Orleans, he was Caucasian.

Brother Felmar: Wow. 

Martin: And afterwards he was like, I noticed you praying so hard in the worship service. I was like, yeah, I was. And he goes, were you praying for me? Like, are you praying for my soul? I was like, I kind of was! I was hoping you, you know, you kind of understand the side of who I am, this very important part of my life.

Brother Felmar: That’s nice.

Shannon: Aw, that’s so sweet.

Martin: And we’ve continued to stay friends ever since. And so, to your point, Brother Felmar, technology accelerated the connection and communication of our love for a lot of different things. From video games to movies to TV shows. But spending that quality time together and being able to share my faith that way, nothing really beats that. Nothing forges a friendship like being able to share your faith in that way, for sure.

Brother Felmar: Right. Yeah. And that’s the proof that there’s something there, right? That he was willing to come out and to meet you, right? So, yeah, that’s the proof that this is a friend worth keeping. You both care about each other, you share you know, passions for your hobbies or your interests. But seeing that, in person, it’s really the proof that, you know, this is genuine, right?

Martin: Absolutely.

Shannon: Brother Felmar, you know how technology has kind of, I guess, increased, boosted or accelerated communication, and we get to talk to people from around the world and meet people we’ve never met. I mean, I think it’s also created a sense of skepticism for some people, too. Maybe they aren’t as trustworthy or trusting to those individuals they haven’t met online and maybe even some relationships, as great as they are, and some friendships, as great as they are, they sometimes don’t always work out. You know, is there like a way to go about that?

Brother Felmar: No, that’s a great point, because we should also be careful, right? Again, there’s only so much you can know about a person through the internet or virtually or through text message, right? And better we go to the Holy Scriptures for more guidance. In the Book of 1 Corinthians, chapter 15, let’s read verses 33 down to 34: 

But don’t be deceived by what the world promotes! The reality is that unhealthy friends and associates corrupt good character. Be sensible, do what’s right and healthy because it is right and healthy,

[1 Corinthians 15:33-34 The Remedy New Testament]

Brother Felmar: As Christians, we strive to be friendly with everybody. That goes hand in hand with shining as lights in this world. And so it was wonderful to hear that story that you shared, Martin, with a friend that you made over the Internet, over gaming. However, this doesn’t mean that anyone and everyone that we meet in person or online should be considered as a close friend. Why? Because the Bible is cautioning us here about unhealthy friends. Who are unhealthy friends? Associates who corrupt good character. How does the Bible advise us to deal with such people? The Bible stated, don’t be deceived by what the world promotes. Be sensible, do what’s right. Just as the Apostles instructed the Christians in their time to not be deceived by what the world promotes, the same caution is given to us now by our Executive Minister, Brother Eduardo Manalo. Also, through the instrumentality of all ministers, as well as our youth programs, like some of them we mentioned earlier. And even through mediums like this, like this podcast, Heart and Soul. Just because something is popular and is being done by many people, including our associates or acquaintances, that does not mean that we, members of the Church of Christ, should also do it. Let us examine it first. If it is in accordance with God’s will written in the Bible.

Martin: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar. I recall a time when I was in college, where it was my freshman year and I would always pack my lunch, of course, because tuition is rising, #inflation. But when I would get there, I had some friends, they had meal cards. So, they’re like, hey, yeah, Martin, come on, let’s go. I’ve got a meal card. I’ll just swipe it and then you can get some food. I was like, yeah, I’m not going to turn down free pizza. So, you know, whenever it was lunchtime, I’d eat and whenever they’d want to grab me some, some extra stuff. I wouldn’t always take advantage of it, but if they wanted to, it’s no problem. We became very, very close and it was kind of like a tradition that we would always eat and go out before and after our class.

Brother Felmar: Okay.

Martin: And one of the things they did often was go to bars. They would go to the bar, especially if it was a class that ended at 8 p.m. or so, and we were all of age to drink here in Canada.

Brother Felmar: Okay.

Martin: And I would always say no, and I would always say no, and I would always say no. And it got to the point where—I wouldn’t say it was a huge detriment per se to the friendship. But they were starting to feel like, hey are you like, better than us? Or are we doing something wrong in your eyes? Like, what’s the matter? Why can’t you just join us for one drink at the bar?

Brother Felmar: Right.

Martin: What do we do if we do have some friends who insist on us doing things that are against our Christian beliefs and values? Because that peer pressure doesn’t just happen when you’re kids. It happens all the way up until adulthood.

Brother Felmar: Yeah, correct. Well, you know, if they’re insisting on doing something which we know goes against our beliefs and Christian values, well, you know, their decision is their decision. But for us, as Christians, we need to be sensible. That’s what we heard right now from the Holy Scriptures. We have to be sensible as Christians. And what’s a sensible thing to do? We should stand up for our faith. So, we can be honest and, at the same time, courteous, in explaining to our friends, you know, for example, in your situation, I can’t go along with that… It’s nothing… I don’t mean to be… It’s not… how would I say this? If you could remind me, Martin.What were your friends saying again? What was their line of reasoning? They were saying…

Martin: Oh, are you better than us? Or, you know, are we doing something wrong in your eyes? Yes.

Brother Felmar: Ok, there we go. Right. So, we can correct their way of thinking right then and there, that I don’t mean in any way to come off as if I’m better than you, but I hope you understand I can’t go along with that because it’s against my faith and values. So, if after that, still, they’re insisting, or they’re still kind of giving us a hard time, well, when all else fails, what’s another sensible thing to do? Just stay away. You know, no one can force us to do anything. And if ever any youth, or anyone for that matter, feels like they are being forced into something and they don’t know how to break free, well, number one, we have to pray. Ask for God’s help, ask for God’s guidance and the courage to stand up for our faith. And then notify our loved ones. And don’t forget, us ministers and Church officers are always ready to help with anything that we can.

Shannon: Yeah, that kind of makes me reflect, there are even some friends that I’ve met online who would want me to, have fun with them or try and promote me to do things that don’t really line up with my faith. So, I guess it doesn’t really matter whether, you know, they’re online or even in person. There’s definitely a variety of people we can meet, that just aren’t good for our faith.

Martin: No, it’s so true. Because if you ask me who am I still closest with, who am I still interacting with, who am I still trying to keep in contact with?

Shannon: That’s right.

Martin: It’s my friends from high school. The ones in college who were kind of peer pressuring me in the wrong way, totally not invested in keeping those friendships alive. It’s so true. And I can say that I’ve made several long term friendships, both before the pandemic, during the pandemic, we were friends with our neighbor upstairs when we were living in a basement apartment. And I even managed to take, like I mentioned earlier, make some friends and invite them to Church while being stuck at home as well. Also, we have two other friends. Their names are Luna and Oliver. They’re cats. I can’t bring them to Church, but they’re also friends that I’ve made during the pandemic.

Shannon: You know, Martin before a good friend, I guess to me, I know that we’ve been listening to scripture and kind of being [reminded] about what a good friend is. But a good friend will respect your values. They’ll never force you or peer pressure. And it’s a good reminder to have. 

Brother Felmar: Correct.

Shannon: Especially because we’re going back into making new friends again and socializing and not being in our rooms.

Brother Felmar: Right. To add to what Shannon just mentioned, that’s a great point, Shannon. You know, with the example Martin shared, right. He was being pressured into drinking alcoholic beverages after school. Remember what the Bible stated, a friend loves at all times. So if these people we’ve met, people we go to class with, etc. When we have shared with them our faith and who we are, and we can’t go along with those things that others are doing because it goes against our beliefs, and they’re giving us a hard time for it. Well, then that’s not someone who cares about us at all times, right? 

So, Shannon is right. If others cannot even respect our beliefs or the decisions we’re making because of our faith, well then, according to the Holy Bible, well then, that’s not a friend worth keeping, right? A friend like what the Bible stated will be there to help you out when trouble comes and will not be the one to make trouble for you, right? A real friend is going to help you out.

Martin: Absolutely. And I think what’s great about that verse and that advice, Brother Felmar, not only is it—it’s timeless. I don’t want to say timely, because it’s timeless. It applies back then in biblical times, and it applies now. 

Brother Felmar: Yes.

Martin: But I also think it goes both ways. For those of us, as members of the Church Of Christ, we have friends who are not part of the true Church. We have friends who are of different religions. So, for example, I have a friend, I remember again in my college years, he was Muslim. He wasn’t able to eat certain foods. And I loved eating certain foods like, oh, yeah, give me pizza with all the bacon on it, load it up. I’m not going to persecute him and be like, hey, what’s wrong with you? You don’t want to eat bacon on your pizza or your burger? It definitely goes both ways. So, our ability to respect and be respected, especially when it comes to our faith, is so very important in determining the kind of friends that we want to keep and the kind of friends that we want to be.

Brother Felmar: Right. I remember a piece of advice. Another minister shared that respect is a two-way street. And as members of the Church of Christ, based on the Holy Scriptures, we love and respect all people. We care about all people. That doesn’t mean that we agree or adhere to everybody’s beliefs or practices, but that mutual respect is there for all people, regardless of what their beliefs or religions are, right? 

So, yes as Christians, we uphold love and respect for all people. But at the same time, if you’re not receiving that from, someone who’s… you’re going to college with, then maybe we should rethink that friendship.

Martin: Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Brother Felmar: But, Martin and Shannon, and to everyone tuning in, in as much as the topic we’re discussing is about friendship. So, of all the friends that one could have in this life, which is the friendship that matters most? Let’s read about that, here, in the book of Psalms, the chapter is 25, and the verse is 14.

The friendship of the LORD is for those who fear him, and he makes known to them his covenant. 

[Psalm 25:14 English Standard Version]

Brother Felmar: The Lord God is the greatest friend a person could have in this life. However, whom does God consider as his friend? The Bible says, the friendship of the Lord is for those who fear Him. We prove that we have holy fear of God through our obedience to His commands, and that’s based on Psalm, chapter 112, verse 1.

Martin: I want to thank you so much for being our guest today, Brother Felmar. Hearing those verses and seeing how you’re able to not only relate, but connect some of our personal anecdotes and experiences to the teachings of the Bible is the reason why we have these kinds of episodes. 

So again, thank you so much Brother Felmar, for joining us in our discussion today. I hope you had a good time and learn as much as we did in this episode. Thank you so much.

Brother Felmar: Thank you again, Martin and Shannon, for having me here on Heart And Soul. Thank you to the Church Administration for projects like this and opportunities like this for us to have, you know, these kinds of conversations. It’s a wonderful experience and I hope everyone listening in also feels the same way.

Shannon: I also want to thank our listeners for joining us today. We definitely, I hope, felt the love and care that we all had in this discussion.

Martin: Absolutely. Thank you, Shannon, for being a wonderful co-host. Thank you again, Brother Felmar, for joining us and providing spiritual advice. And to our listeners, we hope this episode was helpful to all of you and we want to hear from you! 

Let us know your thoughts on this episode and all things Heart And Soul and what you gain from it, by leaving us a comment on Instagram @heartandsoulconversations. We want to hear from you. And of course, if you want to learn more and hear more from Brother Felmar Serrano, he is, of course, the host and the spiritual advisor for the Happy Life podcast, that’s a podcast for newly-wed members within the Church Of Christ. So please log on to and look up Happy Life or search for Happy Life wherever you get your podcasts. 

Again, I’m Brother Martin Zerrudo. Thank you so much for listening. We hope this episode helped and we hope that wherever you are, you’re doing well. Take care.