[2:15] Has science always been right and accurate?
[6:28] What is the difference between the words of God and the findings of science?
[10:04] What is the Bible’s response to the theory of evolution?
[13:00] According to scientific evidence, is the theory of evolution a fact?
[21:44] What does the Bible say about the origin of life?
IE – Creation Or Evolution
Brother Bob Pellien: Evolution has long been discussed and debated. For others—since this theory is commonly ascribed to Charles Darwin—it’s the result of scientific inquiry and the scientific method. For others, that alone is sufficient for them to accept the theory of evolution as fact. However, is science always right? And can you believe in God and the theory of evolution? I’m Bob Pellien. That’s what we’ll be discussing here today on the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition.
And joining us in our discussion is Brother Rommel San Pedro in London in the United Kingdom. Welcome, Brother Rommel, to our discussion.
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Rommel San Pedro
London, England
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Rommel San Pedro: Hello, Brother Bob, and everyone else.
Brother Bob: Yes. Thank you for joining with us today. We have as well in New York, Brother Neil Omelda. Brother Neil, thank you for joining as well.
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Neil Patrick Omelda
New York, USA
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Neil Omelda: Thank you for having us, Brother Bob. Hello, Brother Rommel
Brother Bob: And with us today in our discussion from Canada, Brother Felmar Serreno. Brother Felmar, thank you for your contributions to the discussion as well.
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Felmar Serreno
Vancouver, Canada
Minister of the Gospel
Brother Felmar Serreno: Hello, Brother Bob. Hello, brothers. Pleasure to be here.
Brother Bob: Now, brothers. Today we’ll be talking about the topic that is discussed a lot in the schools and well of course online. We’re going to see what actually the Bible has to say about creation versus the theory of evolution.
Brother Felmar: And on that, Brother Bob, I’m really excited to be here for this discussion today. Not just because it’s my first time on the show, but science and the theory of evolution, in comparison with the Bible and creation, is a popular topic. But I think for the record, we should clarify that as we go into this discussion, it is not an attack on science or any scientist or any science enthusiast.
Brother Rommel: That’s right, brother. The truth is as members of the Church Of Christ, we maintain that there is harmony between science and the Bible.
[2:15]
Brother Bob: And on that note, brothers, let’s examine now: Has science always been right and accurate? Let’s take a look at that first.
Brother Neil: Well, at the outset, Brother Bob and our brothers and our viewers, it is important that we acquire a working definition of the word science. According to Webster’s third new international dictionary, science comes from the Latin word “scientia”, which means knowledge, and the main purpose of science is to reach the ultimate truth. The truth is the end goal of science.
Brother Bob: So then do you mean anyone who seeks knowledge or is intelligent, can be called a scientist?
Brother Felmar: Not exactly, Brother Bob, if I can jump in. An individual’s action or way of thinking can only be said to be scientific, if he or she is using what is called the scientific method.
Brother Bob: What’s the scientific method?
Brother Felmar: From what I know, Brother Bob, the scientific method is a series of definite steps. So, the first step is observation, which is the basis of the definition of the problem. Usually the questions how and why something occurs and exists are then asked, that’s the second step. The attempt to explain the occurrence or existence of anything, that is the third step, the formulation of the hypothesis. Here the scientist actually makes guesses about the phenomenon he or she is observing.
What’s the fourth step? That’s experimentation through which the hypothesis or guests is put to a test. Ideally, the results of the experimentation should substantiate the hypothesis. If they don’t, the hypothesis has to be rejected. If the experiment does yield results that do validate the hypothesis, a hypothesis is tentatively accepted and elevated to the level of a theory.
Brother Bob: Doesn’t sound like there’s much difference then between a hypothesis and a theory.
Brother Rommel: Evidently, a theory is but a well-tested hypothesis. At the theory stage, a scientist makes conclusions or generalizations even before further experimentations have validated his theory. At this point in the discussion, it’s important to call attention to what John W. Hill, chemist and author says,
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… Scientists, like other human beings, use intuition and generalize from few facts. Sometimes they are wrong.
Chemistry For Changing Times, Minn. Burgess Publishing Company, 1975, p. 6
Brother Rommel: So scientists, when they generalize from a few facts, can sometimes be wrong.
Brother Bob: What’s the proof though, brothers, that sometimes says scientists are really wrong?
Brother Rommel: So according to what we read, science is a theoretical framework which gives meaning to our factual knowledge. However, it is a constantly changing framework for scientific models are constantly being reevaluated or revised as new data is obtained.
Brother Neil: That’s very true brother. In addition to that, it is also common knowledge that when new instruments are being used, most information changes. We can agree then that science has not reached the ultimate truth in all areas of life and knowledge.
Brother Bob: Right. Does the history, though, of science give any evidence to this as well?
Brother Neil: If we read this book written by the author Enno Wolthuis, it states this:
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… The history of science clearly shows that what is considered scientifically true today may not be so tomorrow…
Science, God and You by Enno Wolthuis
Brother Neil: This is precisely the condition of scientific inquiry today, brothers, during which past discoveries are being reviewed, questioned, and refuted by more recent findings. Evidently, therefore, science would contradict the Bible whenever the ultimate truth had not been reached.
[6:28]
Brother Bob: Right. Right. So surely, plenty of people will be shocked at this point for others to hear that. They may wonder, well, how could we say something like that? And aren’t the words of God similar to science and such that what God has said in the past is no longer true today? What God has said in the past needs to be updated, needs to be changed, needs to be fixed?
Brother Felmar: On the contrary, Brother Bob, the words of God have a uniqueness that science does not. If we could all please direct our attention to what the Bible reveals here in the Book of Isaiah 40:8,
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.
[Isaiah 40:8 King James Version]
Brother Felmar: According to the Holy Scriptures, the words of God are true for all times. This is in direct contrast to the findings of science, which over the years need to be reviewed and revised. But when science does arrive at the ultimate truth, it cannot contradict the words of God, which are true and ultimate and forever.
Brother Bob: Are there any proof, though, brothers that man’s knowledge when it hasn’t yet reached the ultimate truth can be an error, whereas the Bible sustains ultimate truth; the Bible is always true?
Brother Rommel: Well, Brother Bob, George Deho in his book “Why We Believe the Bible” states:
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When the Bible was written it was universally believed the earth was flat. It was argued that should one go too far toward the edge he would fall off … Finally, Magellan and his men sailed around the earth and thus proved it to be spherical in shape …
Why We Believe The Bible by George Deho, 1966, p.49
Brother Rommel: In the earlier days, it was heresy to believe the world was round. What was considered scientific back then was the belief that the world was flat. It was when Magellan sailed around the world in the 16th century, and did not fall off any of the edges, it had to be accepted categorically that the world is spherical rather than flat. So “scientific fact” has been disproved through discovery. Fast forward to the 20th century, astronauts on board spaceships see for themselves, photograph, and they sail around a spherical and not a flat earth.
Brother Neil: Well that’s science. What about the Bible and the words of our Almighty God? Did our Almighty God need astronauts to confirm to Him that the earth is spherical? Not at all. The proof of that is recorded in Isaiah 40:22, and this is written:
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, …
[Isaiah 40:22 King James Version]
Brother Neil: Long before men sailed the seas, and long before he invented his spaceships to see the true shape of the earth, God has spoken to his prophets that the earth is really round. What science has to prove through inventions and observations, our Almighty God has created to be or cause to be recorded in the Bible. Stay tuned, dear viewers, we will show you more proof as this program continues. Stay with us.
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INC International Edition
[10:04]
Brother Bob: Welcome back, everyone to the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. We left off by asking well, what is the Bible’s response regarding the theory of evolution specifically,
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Today’s Topic: Creation vs. Evolution
Brother Bob: which at the same time teaches us how we ought to respond to proposed theories or beliefs such as evolution?
Brother Neil: Well Brother Bob, the Bible has an answer for that and it is recorded in I Thessalonians 5: 21-22,
Put all things to the test: keep what is good and avoid every kind of evil.
[I Thessalonians 5:21 Today’s English Version]
Brother Neil: We need, then, to put all things to the test. This is why a Christian must use his God-given ability to think. Many people who believe in the theory of evolution have not really thought about what they are believing.
Brother Rommel: So we should be cautious about proposed beliefs and theories that might have religious implications. Even if such a brand is scientific, they must be tested not only with current scientific evidence, but most of all, in the light of biblical teachings.
Brother Bob: Exactly. So we need to put evolution to the test. Is it a fact? Is it even a substantial theory?
Brother Neil: According to Darwin, life started out simple and evolved into more complex creatures. So he was proposing macroevolution.
Brother Bob: Okay, so brothers, what does the Bible actually say about that? Did man evolve from simpler forms of life?
Brother Neil: Well, this we can read in Genesis 1:24-26.
Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. Then God said, “Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.
[Genesis 1:24-26 New King James Version]
Brother Neil: Dear friends, what the Bible describes here is not macroevolution, but creation. Our Almighty God for each and all living creatures according to its kind. One kind did not evolve into another kind. Man did not evolve from a bird or from any other animal.
[13:00]
Brother Bob: So then, based on what you read there, brothers, the theory of evolution does not pass the biblical test. We cannot believe both the Bible and the theory of evolution. Well, let’s keep the test going further, in as much as there are those that claim this theory in fact, isn’t a theory at all. It’s actually a fact. But what does the evidence— let’s go to evidence, we have the theory of evolution—what does the evidence say about that theory?
Brother Felmar: Brother Bob, according to Darwin himself, there is a way by which his theory can be tested to be either true or false. And we can hear about that in this upcoming video.
[Video starts]
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Source: www.youtube.com/peaceeverywhere
Narrator: Darwin was also aware of the complete lack of the intermediate form fossils he had proposed. In fact, he even predicted that this would represent a major stumbling block for his theory. He therefore wrote the following in the chapter titled Difficulties on Theory in the “Origin of Species.”
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“… Why, if species have descended from other species by insensibly fine gradations, do we not everywhere see innumerable transitional forms? Why is not all nature in confusion instead of the species being, as we see them, well defined?… But, as by this theory innumerable transitional forms must have existed, why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?… Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finally graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory.
(Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species, Oxford University Press, New York, 1998, pp. 140, 141, 227.)
[Video ends]
Brother Felmar: So brothers and dear viewers, Darwin’s theory could be confirmed or denied by the fossil record. That is because his theory states that animals evolved from one species to another gradually over millions of years. So if that’s the case, there must be millions of transitional forms of one species, allegedly, that evolved into another.
Brother Rommel: Well, Brother Felmar, according to Darwin, if his theory were true, there will be tons, I mean, tons of transitional or intermediate forms in the fossil record, and no fossils of completely formed creatures. So for example, if a dog evolved into a monkey,—we’re not saying that dogs evolved with monkeys, it’s just an example—what we would see in the fossil record would be millions of fossils of, for example, 20% dog with 80% monkey or 40% dog with 60% monkey, just like that. Intermediate forms and virtually no fossils of complete monkeys and complete dogs.
Brother Neil: But if the biblical account, brothers, is true, then what we would expect to see in the fossil records are no intermediate forms, and tons of fossils of already fully developed animals.
Brother Bob: But of course, brothers, we all know during the time of Darwin, that was like 150 years ago, the fossil record back then was really far from complete. So now 150 years later. Now, what does the fossil record reveal? Let’s watch this.
[Video starts]
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Source: www. youtube.com/peaceeverywhere
Narrator: Basically, this intermediate form dilemma. Darwin’s only explanation was that the fossil record of his time was insufficient. In putting forward his theory, Darwin claimed that living species are evolved from one another. And when the fossil record is examined, millions of intermediate forms will be found in the hope that these will be discovered in due time. The fact is, however, that today’s fossil record is sufficiently rich to completely demolish Darwin’s claim.
Between Darwin’s time and the present day, some 100 million fossils belonging to 250,000 species recorded by scientists have been collected, yet there is not one single intermediate form fossil among them. Today 99% of the fossils in the earth strata have been unearthed and examined. The total absence of any such transitional fossils among them shows that it is logically impossible that these imaginary life forms will suddenly emerge from the remaining 1%. To hope nonetheless, that intermediate life forms will one may be found is nothing more than evolutionist wishful thinking.
[Video ends]
Brother Neil: Well, dear friends and our beloved viewers, the fossil record basically rejects the theory of evolution, and confirms the biblical account.
Brother Felmar: So based on the evidence, the biblical account on the creation of life is actually more scientific than the theory of evolution, which means evolution is not a fact but more myth. It exists only as a theory in the textbooks, but not in reality, nor in the fossil records.
Brother Bob: Dear viewers, before we continue, let’s watch another important video clip of an interview with a scientist about what Darwin’s theory of evolution failed to account for. Take a look.
[Video starts]
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Source: www.youtube.com/maxavail
Man 1: Darwinism, say life began…
Man 2: Well, he didn’t know and in fact, nobody knows. So, Darwinism strictly defined starts after the origin of life and deals only with living things.
Man 1: Well, how can there be a theory about life without a theory about how life began?
Man 2: Well, a grand, overarching, evolutionary story, of course, does include the origin of life, but Darwin’s theory doesn’t begin until you have the first cell.
Man 1: Well does someone have a theory about how life began?
[Video ends]
Brother Neil: So Brother Bob, according to some scientists, Darwin’s theory of evolution does not know how life originated.
Brother Bob: But let’s see now, brothers, how evolutionists—those believing and embracing that theory of evolution—how do they attempt to explain the origin of life? Take a look at this.
[Video starts]
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Source: www.youtube.com/maxavail
COSMIC ORIGINS
From Big Bang to Humankind
Narrator 1: This is the story of a small planet in space called earth.
Narrator 2: For a typical Darwinian explanation of how life originated, Dr. Wells directed me toward this documentary.
Narrator 1: The chemical elements essential for life—hydrogen, oxygen, carbon and nitrogen—were now in place. What was needed was a way of combining them. Perhaps the energy came from lightning. Whatever it was, …
Narrator 2: Excuse me?
Narrator 1: Whatever it was, energy managed to arrange these chemical ingredients in just the right way.
Narrator 2: Whatever it was? I was hoping for something a little more scientific. The most popular idea has been that life emerged spontaneously from primordial soup.
[Video ends]
Brother Neil: Well, from the video, we can see that scientists invented or coined the term to explain the origin of life from primordial soup, namely abiogenesis. Abiogenesis is the supposedly spontaneous or origination of life, living organisms that directly from lifeless matter.
Brother Felmar: But Brother Neil, this raises more questions than answers. Like where did the chemicals come from? How were they formed together? What formed them together to make the first cell?
Brother Rommel: And all of this supposedly happened by random chance?
[21:44]
Brother Bob: Brothers, can random collisions of chemicals produce a living cell? What light does the Bible reveal concerning that?
Brother Rommel: I’ll read, Brother Bob, here in Hebrews 3:4,
For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God.
[Hebrews 3:4 New King James Version]
Brother Rommel: This biblical statement cannot be refuted. When we see a house we know someone built it. It wouldn’t be reasonable to believe that the house could build itself even if all the parts of the house are present, random processes could not build it. What’s needed is someone to build it. Someone implies intelligence.
Brother Felmar: If it takes someone to build a house, how much more intelligence is needed to construct the first living cell. The living cell is not a simple glob of protoplasm.
Brother Neil: That’s very true, Brother Felmar, at this point is very clear that it is more reasonable to believe that God created life than it is to believe that a living cell was randomly created by chance.
Brother Bob: Brothers, what then has been observed, which directly works against the spontaneous generation of life from non-life and the evolution from a certain species to a changed, more advanced species.
Brother Neil: Let me read the answer to that, Brother Bob, recorded in Romans 8:21:
that creation itself would one day be set free from its slavery to decay and would share the glorious freedom of the children of God.
[Romans 8:21 Today’s English Version]
Brother Neil: The Bible says that all creation is in slavery to decay. This is why you can’t expect life to emerge from non-life.
Brother Felmar: The natural direction of life is decay, not evolution. And this is true, especially when it comes to mutations. Now evolutionists will insist that mutation is what can cause the simple to become complex, and for a species to evolve into a more advanced species. But that is not what we find from mutations. It is always in the direction of decay, and not evolution.
Brother Bob: I have here an article written by Brian Thomas. He cites research on the effects of mutations and bacteria conducted by microbiologists from Uppsala University in Sweden. I’d like to quote his article. He said this:
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Source: www.icr.org/articles
In theory, each mutation could have a negative, neutral, or positive effect on growth rate. What they found was that all the mutations had a negative effect. While a few were dangerous, most had very little negative effect. Could such a small negative effect even be detected, let alone culled, by natural selection? And how could a fish transmutate into a monkey by losing “fitness” each generation?
Brother Neil: Brother Bob, it can’t. According to the biophysicist Lee Spetner, though a believer in evolution, Spetner criticized the idea that mutations contribute anything positive. And he wrote and I quote this: “information cannot be built up by mutations that lose it, like a business cannot make money by losing it a little at a time.
Brother Felmar: Mutations, according to these studies, lead to information loss, not information gain. So how could evolution take place when there is no increase in genetic information? Mutations, therefore, do not lead to evolution but to decay, which is to be expected because we live in a world that is in slavery to decay, as attested to us by the Bible. In a world like that, we can expect the degradation of the genome and not its evolution through accumulating mutations.
Brother Bob: Precisely. And considering all the facts and all the Bible-based truths presented here today, dear friends, clearly disprove the theory of evolution. What’s the biggest takeaway for all of our viewers joining us on our program for today, Brother Neil? What should they remember?
Brother Neil: Dear friends, we hope that by now, everyone who viewed this episode is convinced there is a true God. It is He, the living God Who created all things and all mankind.
Brother Rommel: But is it enough just to know that the true God exists? Who exactly is God? Why did he create mankind? This is why we as members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo, the Church Of Christ, continue to invite you, dear friends, to continue learning with us in the Church Of Christ. There’s a lot more truth to learn from the Bible. We can’t cover it all in just one sitting. For today, what is it that we did cover? We learned that while science is important, science isn’t always right. Whereas the words of God are ultimate, and are always true.
Brother Felmar: Bible-based teachings reveal to us that the theory of evolution is against the teachings of God and should therefore be rejected.
Brother Bob: We know that you have a lot more questions to pose and would love to sit down with you in face-to-face Bible study settings. So email us at info@incmedia.org and a minister of the gospel will reach out to you and set up a time that works best for you.
Well, that does it for us here in the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition for today. We hope you’ll join us again next time. We’d like to thank Brother Rommel San Pedro, there in London in the United Kingdom; Brother, Neil, in New York; as well as Brother Felmar Serreno there in Vancouver. Brothers, we would like to thank all of you for being with us today and for giving to us Bible-based answers so that as the Apostle Peter said to members of the Church, “you will be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you are living the way you are.” That’s First Peter 3:15. Thanks for watching. As we come to the end of the program, we invite you to join us for a short prayer
Brother Felmar: Lord, our God, our Father Who is in heaven. We praise, we glorify Your holy Name. We are so thankful to You, O Father, for the truths that we have received through our discussion today. Lord our God, please bless this program. May You remember our friends and acquaintances throughout the world. May it be that through viewing this discussion, we are further inspired to know You better, O Father, and to know more about Your message of truth in the Holy Scriptures. So that by attaining this wisdom, O Father, we will understand Your wonderful purpose for creating us that we may live a happy and meaningful life. But most of all, we will know the truth that leads to salvation. Dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, thank You for Your care. Please, dear Lord, mediate our prayers to the Father, and may You always dwell in our hearts. Dear Father, glory be to You for Your wonderful work through the Church Of Christ, through the leadership of the Church Administration. Continue to bless all of the endeavors of Your beloved Church even through programs like this. We humbly ask for all things in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen.
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