Conflict of Beliefs

Felix, a new member in the Church Of Christ, sits down with Robert, a long time member, to get his advice on how to manage differences in religious beliefs with his family. Robert joined the Church over 30 years ago and shares his life lessons on how he peacefully dealt with conflicts with his family after changing religions.

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Conflict of Beliefs

Felix: Me and my mom, we would have arguments, you know, like, whoa, why did you join this church and then my dad…He told me straight up to my face, like, I don’t want to join your religion, put that in your head. And you know that every time at the worship services, it’s always giving me signs of me, wanting them to invite them…that’s, that’s what I’m trying to do is just trying to be more positive.

Robert: Well, that’s the right attitude to be positive. Because, you know, I’ll tell you, right now, Felix, I’m still the only member of my family that’s a member of the Church.

(audio fades out)

Aliw Garcia Pablo: From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way…always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo.

Aliw: Today’s episode is about making big life changes – big enough that it affects your relationship with your family. Meet Felix, a listener who we met on Instagram.

Felix: My question, Robert, was…like how would you still be able to talk to them—even if—when they still denied your invitations?

Aliw: He recently found the truth in the Church Of Christ but is having challenges in his relationships with his family.

Robert:…you have to be able to create this balance when you’re with them, right?

Robert: Felix, you’re not alone. There are stories like this, all throughout the church in every country. It’s a problem that a lot of members deal with. And it makes them stronger.

Aliw: Felix will be talking to Robert who joined the Church Of Christ over 20 years ago, who also experienced his own set of challenges with his family but have now found peace with them.

Let’s listen in.

Robert: Hey, Felix, how are you?

Felix: I’m doing good, Robert. How about you?

Robert: Oh, well, it’s good. It’s always good to be able to meet and talk to, you know, other members, even though you’re across the country? You know, we’re all so tightly knit.

Felix: Yeah, so basically, my questions were, you know, now that I’m a member of the Church, you know, even though when I was going through Bible studies, I was always, I was still facing persecution. Basically, it was last year where most of the time of 2021, it was very, very heartbreaking because of being persecuted by my own, even by my own loved ones. So my question is to you, you know, being persecuted at home, how did you still continue to communicate with your family?

Robert: Well, it’s—how long have you been in the Church, Felix?

Felix: I’ve been in the Church for seven months?

Robert: Seven months? Well, that’s, it’s a wonderful blessing. You know, persecution is a hard word. It’s a tough word. Because often, it comes from a place where people think that it’s, it’s coming from a place of being mean, right? And a lot of times what it is, it’s just confusion or lack of understanding, you know, about what’s going on. And then, you know, of course, when they don’t understand and it comes across, in a way that you know, you might be feeling is like persecution. And I’ll just share a little bit about, you know, my background, right? I’m the only member in my family, that’s a member of the Church. I was baptized back in 1989.

Aliw: This is when Robert opens up to Felix about his past. Robert begins to share how being raised Catholic, being an altar boy and doing all the rituals, suddenly didn’t feel right for him. As a young adult, he began church hopping from the Baptist church, then Pentecostal, then explored Evangelical Christianity, then became a born again Christian.

Robert: But you know, as most people find out, there was just a lot of ad libbing that was going on. And it wasn’t really as scripturally-based than what I was needing in my life. So I finally found the Church Of Christ, you know, and I was introduced to it and went through all the Bible studies, and I asked a ton of questions to the Minister that was giving me my Bible studies. And a lot of it is because I’d spent the last—at the time, I was only 24—24 years of my life in one religion. And when you spend that much time, and you’ve accumulated that much experience in history in that one religion, you’re going to have a lot of questions. So I asked a lot of questions. And really, everything that was given back to me came straight from the Bible, it was exactly what I was looking for. Then, you know, they didn’t try to interpret anything they didn’t try to, you know, cover everything up as a mystery. It was exactly from the Scripture.

So when I obviously became a member coming from a family that was devout Catholics, it wasn’t something that was looked upon very favorably. Right? Leaving the church. And when that happened, a lot of what you’re probably describing as persecution was happening to me. They didn’t understand, you know, why I would leave the religion that I was in for 24 years at the time. It was hard for them to understand why this transition, and all of the different things were changing about me, you know. I was living a different life, so we didn’t celebrate a lot of the holidays that the Catholics would celebrate, right? So, I wouldn’t be involved in those and I think that that’s where some of that comes from, right? Because they just they don’t understand,

And a lot of people are afraid of things that they don’t understand. And that’s what turns into what we perceive to be persecution.

And what I found is that through that whole point, there was a point where almost up to two years, we didn’t talk. For two years. That’s a long time.

Felix: You and your family?

Robert: Yeah. And I lived in New York, they lived in California, And the one thing that I did is I just never gave up trying to show that, you know, that I’m still reaching out that I still want to communicate, that, you know, because I’m in this religion, now, it doesn’t mean that I don’t love you. That you know, your family, you know, you’re still my family.

Aliw: Two years. Robert spent two whole years reaching out to his family and getting very little in return. I heard shock… and maybe even fear, in Felix’s voice. As if he’s picturing what might happen to him. But then, Robert tells Felix when his family finally reached back out to him.

Robert: And it took just never stopping and reaching out in what finally turned the table is when my mom got really sick. And they, you know, my brothers and sisters reached out to me, because, you know, at that point, we didn’t know what’s going to happen. And, you know, thank God, she was okay, she recovered. But that really is what sort of started the communication over again.

It’s just, it’s difficult, but they’re gonna say things that may not sit well with you. And you just have to remember that it’s not—they’re your family, they love you. And all of that they’re just coming from a place of not understanding and not knowing, so they might say things that hurt, but just you know, remember you’re still going to continue to love them

Felix: I’ll be honest with you because, I’m trying not to remember all the negative things that they said about me because, trust me, it was really hard.

Robert: I know.

Felix: Like I said, I’m just trying to stay strong and continue on putting them in my prayers. Because when I was at home, every day, me and my little brothers, we would just look at each other, we wouldn’t talk. Me and my mom, we would have arguments, you know, like, whoa, why did you join this church and then my dad after, when he came back to El Salvador…He told me straight up to my face, like, I don’t want to join your religion, put that in your head. And you know that every time at the worship services, it’s always giving me signs of me, wanting them to invite them, but when the chance is there to invite them I feel everything, you know, falls apart. So you know, that’s, that’s what I’m trying to do is just trying to be more positive.

Robert: Well, that’s the right attitude to be positive. Because, you know, I’ll tell you, right now, Felix, I’m still the only member of my family that’s a member of the Church. This is 32 years, right? And, but I will tell you that when we first started, I was much like, in the same situation where they didn’t want to hear anything about the Church, and it’s because they didn’t understand.

You know, you have all these feelings, like you’re, you’re doubting yourself, like, you know, why is this happening now? And, you know, why are they so angry? And why is it that they can’t understand. And that takes time, right? You have to know how to create a balance, right? Because you want to spend time with them. But you don’t want the time that you spend with them to always be awkward, right? So if I know I’m going to spend the afternoon with you, and if I know that the minute I walk in the door, the first thing I’m going to talk about is how they need to leave their church and join my church, that’s going to create kind of an awkward space, right? So you, you have to kind of create this balance where they know that when you’re there, you’re still present, you’re still Felix. I’m still your son, I’m still your brother. And then when the opportunities come up, when you start to see opportunities, and God’s gonna show you when those opportunities come up. That’s when you can talk about, you know, hey, you know, we’ve got this activity. It’s an activity that you know, that they’d enjoy, you know, something, something that’s maybe less formal, because it took almost two and a half years, I think, before, I was actually able to get my mom to come to a Bible study, which finally came, and then when she comes to visit us when we were living in Atlanta, and even here, she joins us in the worship service. Because now we’re at a point where she respects my faith, because it’s the faith that’s raising her grandchildren.

So she respects it. And the rest, I leave up to God, because now you know, as members of the Church, our job is just to invite, right? We’re not the ones that are going to convert anybody, all we can do is introduce them. And if we introduce them to the Church, and we pray, it’s God who’s going to call them.

Aliw: As Felix listened, there was one thing that he needed help in dealing with that frankly, is a challenge for everyone….rejection.

Felix: My next question Robert was, how would you still be able to talk to them, even if, when they still denied your invitations or talked down on you?

Robert: Well, when you’re inviting them to come to a Bible study or join worship service, or you know, to come and listen, and you’re noticing that that’s a point of tension, right? Because then all of a sudden, the conversation doesn’t go quite the way that you wanted it to. You have to be able to create this balance when you’re with them, right? Because when you’re with them, and you want to spend time with them, be present. And, you know, provided that the gathering isn’t like a celebration or something that you know is against the doctrines, you can be there and be present, you don’t have to, to always be trying to get them to come to an activity or listen to the Bible study all the time, because that’s where a lot of the tension comes from.

The thing that really made the biggest difference was when they started to see how my life changed. Because I was a member of the Church. My outlook on life was a lot more positive, you know, it was a lot more optimistic. I, you know, didn’t cuss, I didn’t do a lot of the things that I used to do when I was younger, and they started to slowly see that change. And that’s really where I think they started to understand that, you know, being a member of the Church, even though they didn’t understand the doctrines or hear anything, yet. They knew it was good for me. It was a good influence. And it was even more so after we had our first child and my mom and my relatives saw how they were being raised in the Church. Respectful, industrious. They were, you know, always willing to help, it doesn’t have to be you always trying to, you know, I need you to come to Bible study tonight, I need you to come to Bible study. And, try to do that. So that way they can at least see that being a member of the Church was actually a good influence. And it’s affected your life in a positive way.

Felix: I remember telling my mom that every time I’m at the Church, I’m always happy.

But when I’m at home, I’m not happy. Because I told her that at the Church, I always see love all the time. I would go to work. And then if there’s an evangelical mission or worship service, I would always go, you know, I would always, I would always come back home with a smile. But then every single day, I was in a very bad mental state because there was no love in the house, you know what I mean? So, my question is, how can you bring that love that you have at Church at your house? You know what I’m trying to say?

Robert: Yeah, you know, what, you’re already doing it, Felix. When you go home, you go home, with a smile on your face. And, you feel—if I’m guessing, you feel like, you know, when you leave the evangelical missions, is that your life has purpose, and that no matter what you’re going through, you know that there’s a solution, right, you know, that God has your back, no matter what. And when you go home, you’re bringing that love and that feeling already that optimism and the positivity, what you have to try to avoid is, you know, engaging in, you know, discussions that if you know that when you start to talk about it, it starts to escalate, right, and things start to get heated, you have to try to avoid that. Because when emotions once emotions get involved, especially when it comes to religion, it’s sometimes difficult to dial it back down.

Felix: Yeah.

Robert: And you sometimes have to remember, you know, how humble our Lord Jesus Christ was. Imagine that, right? With everything he was able to do, how humble he was.

And, you know, redirect them if you can, because you can’t forcibly change how someone feels sometimes, as much as you want to. You sometimes just have to wait and pray. Because God can do things that you and I could never imagine would have happened. Yeah. Right. You have to believe that if you pray hard enough, and you really pour your heart out in your prayers. And you show God how much you really want this, that you just continue to just, you know, be who you are.

Felix: Yeah, that’s, that’s one thing I’ve always been reminded of at the worship service is to renew our lives and to live the way He wants us to live.

Robert: Yeah, I mean, you have to really be just so, you know, so many years after my baptism, but I realized, like, how I lived my life before I was baptized, and then how God out of the millions of people chose me.

Felix: Yeah.

Robert: Gave me this chance, right. It’s like, the ultimate job that you’ve always wanted, that you didn’t know you could interview for. And, you know, all of a sudden, here you are in the Church. And you and I recalled, you know, when we were in our early 20s, against all odds, right? Because our families weren’t supporting it. They’re not supportive of it. But yet, we’re here. And, you know, we made the choice, because it’s the right choice and we never have any regrets. Never have any doubts, and just keep living your life, the way that God means for you to live it.

Felix: Yeah, exactly. And that’s, it’s like, when I hear it’s like, it’s always refreshing, you know, I love to hear that.

Aliw: Then, Felix brings up the topic that’s been the most difficult for many new members of the Church to deal with… with their families – the annual holidays.

Felix: And when it comes to like, with holidays, such as Christmas, I think it was last year, I told the one of the brethren like, Hey, is it okay if I can, night guard at the at the church because I don’t want to, be I don’t want to be at the house celebrating Christmas with my family, because I might be, I might be tempted or you know, because usually, it’s always drinking or partying to like, three in the morning, right?

I ended up going back home, but spending time alone in my room while the others were celebrating and doing those things downstairs.

Robert: I’ve been there. I’ve been there, Felix, I, you know, it’s when you’re when you’re the only member in your family, it’s hard. It is. It’s not easy. It’s a test. It’s a test of your faith because you’re surrounded by that, right?

And it’s a tough thing for them to understand. But eventually they will, that it’s got nothing to do with you not wanting to be a part of the family. But they have to respect and that’s all, you know, it’s gonna get to a point where you’re not asking to convert them, you’re not wanting them to become members, necessarily, but you want them to at least respect your faith. The same way that you respect theirs. But you want them to respect your faith and respect the choices that you make as a result of it.

Felix: I’ve been through so much last year with persecution, I know, we have to face more, all of us, we all face it. You know, the person who faced it even more was our Lord Jesus Christ, you know, he, even he’s been, he’s been hated by almost the whole world. So we have to face it, too. But you know…

Robert: And imagine the choices He had to make…He made some difficult choices. And the choices we make pale in comparison to that. But you know it to us our choices, and our persecutions, and our trials are just, you know, there’s something we have to deal with.

And right now is a very difficult time when you’re a new member. But just don’t give up. You know, just be patient, keep praying, and, you know, God’s gonna be the one to call them. You have to believe that.

When you’re inviting people for missionary work, everybody has a number. And what I mean by that is that sometimes people have to be invited five times, sometimes they need to be invited three times, sometimes they have to be invited 100 times. We don’t know what that number is. The only thing that we can do is keep inviting. Because imagine if that person’s number was 100 and you stopped at 99, because you said I don’t want to do this anymore. I don’t want to invite them anymore. But their number was 100. And you were only one number away, one invitation away from getting them to come and listen.

But you know, just don’t be so hard on yourself. You’re doing, you’re doing exactly what you need to do, which is just to invite and when you invite and if they say no, what you should be feeling is good that you still had that love for them to want to invite them. It’s when you don’t want to invite them anymore and you’re like, nah, nevermind, that’s when you should start worrying.

Felix: Okay, yeah, yes. That’s what I that’s what I feel because every time I invite my dad—with my dad, I either watch INC posts on the on the app or invite him to the Evangelical Mission or it can either be an excuse or he doesn’t want to but you know, like I said—

Robert: There’s so much content INC Media. I always dig through the libraries to find something that I know is going to mean something to them.

It doesn’t always have to be about trying to convert them or trying to get them into a Bible study. You just want them to become familiar, because remember, the way that you feel that they’re treating you it’s just because they don’t know. And our job is to educate them, and to let them know what the Church is all about.

Felix: Thank you so much, Robert, for, you know, being in this podcast with me, you know, like I say, you know, even though, I just met you just now, I feel like, I can say if I’m in the future, I can go back and be like, Okay, now, I’m a very strong man, with a very strong faith as well.

Robert: It was great meeting you, Felix.

Aliw Pablo: So Felix, how does it feel to be able to hear from someone who has been in your shoes?

Felix: Makes me feel like, you know, I’m not the only one out there, you know, so I’m really happy that he shared what he’s been through. And the advice that he gave me.

Robert: 100% Felix, you’re not alone. You are not alone. There are stories like this, the stories about people like you and I, all throughout the Church, in every country. So, believe me, this is not just a me problem. It’s a problem that a lot of members deal with. And it makes them stronger.

Aliw Pablo: And, Robert, if there was one piece of advice that you could say was the ultimate game changer, that you could really see the change in your family in the way they started to treat you, speak with you, when you invited them or when you even talked about religion, what would it be?

Robert: Just one: it’s when they realized that my being a member of the Church of Christ didn’t mean that I didn’t love them anymore, that I didn’t still count them as my family.

And it was that love that I have. That makes me want to continue trying to invite them. And I needed them to see that. It took time for them to finally realize that, you know, I’m still Robert, I still love you. You’re my mom, you’re my brothers, you’re my sisters. But this is my life in the Church, and I want you to be a part of it. And I’m not going to stop inviting you.

Aliw Pablo: Do you think it’s possible to to stay true to your spiritual identity and still be able to, you know, still maintain really strong family connections? Is it possible?

Robert: It’s, it’s possible. And it’s not something that is very easy in the beginning. But because your spiritual identity is something that when you’re a new member of the Church, you’re still trying to form, you’re still developing it, right? And your identity builds. The longer you are in the Church, the more active you are in the Church. You know, you stay active, you attend the Bible studies, you listen intently in the worship services. And you consume as much education as you can, you know, and that’s how you start to really build and reinforce that spiritual identity. But you’ve got to be able to create that balance that says—But when I’m with my family, and we’re making connections—You’re not prohibited from doing that. Just because you’re a member of the Church Of Christ doesn’t mean that you all of a sudden have to cut all ties with your family. Because that’s not what God wants. Right? He wants us to be the reason that your family is attracted to the church because they say, wow, look at the difference it made.

Felix: And we still love them no matter what. My prayer is just to love more because like I said, even in the scriptures, it says, you know, even your own loved ones would even hate you. But you know, all we got to do is just love them. Pray for them. So, like you said, so you know, we’re members, and I’m still your son, I’m still your brother and I will always love you no matter what.

Robert: Yes. And don’t—you know, in your mind, no matter what’s going on in the moment, just make sure that that’s what’s sitting in your mind, is that you know, ‘Mom, I’m talking to you, we are having a tough conversation, but I love you.’ And sometimes it’s a hard thing to say. But you know, you want them to know that that’s how you feel.

Aliw Pablo: Thank you both. Thank you both for a really enlightening conversation. And thank you for sharing your heart and the life lessons, Robert. And Felix, we hope that what you heard from Robert today is going to help you in your own spiritual journey.

Felix: That’s what I’m trying to do is just be more positive. You know, just keep inviting them if you never know when God will call them to the church. So you know, it really helped me out.

Robert: It was a really, really great meeting. You know, I feel like I’m meeting myself 30 years ago, 20 years ago, maybe just 20 years ago. I don’t want to be that old.

Felix: I feel like when I’m his age, I’ll be in his shoes, giving the same advice to someone who is in my shoes, at my age.

Aliw Pablo: That’s right. And it’s the gift that keeps on giving. Thank you both so much. Thank you so much. And we know that just from this one conversation, you’re going to help so many people who are going through the same things you’re going through Felix who may be quietly struggling, and we hope that this conversation has given them hope, has given them inspiration…to just keep loving, keep trying and to just never giving up. So thank you both so much.

Robert: It was great meeting you, Felix. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Aliw, for having us.

Aliw: Special Thanks to Felix and Robert for taking the time to share their journeys and life lessons with us. Now, if you know someone who may be going through what Felix is going through, please share this episode with them to give them courage and find peace during what could be the best change in their life but also a very difficult transition in their lives.

For more inspiring content or to learn more about the Iglesia Ni Cristo Church of Christ, log on to incmedia.org or download the INC Media app.

Thanks for listening. And may your change uplift you.

Dads with Autistic Kids

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Jay and Mike are two dads who have children on the autism spectrum. They sit down for an honest conversation on how changing their mindset about autism has helped them find hope and gratitude.

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Dads with Autistic Kids

Jay: Good morning.

Mike: Good morning. Can you hear me?

Jay: Can you hear my audio?

Mike: Yeah.

Aliw: From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way, but always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo.

Mike: Hi, Jay. How are you?

Jay: Hi, Mike. I’m good. How are you?

Aliw: Today’s episode is for dads. Today we’ll listen to two dads who have found themselves adjusting their plans in parenting upon finding out that their children were diagnosed with autism. You’ll meet Jay from Australia whose 4 year old daughter, Layna, was recently diagnosed with autism, and he’ll be talking to Mike, who will be passing on what he’s learned from his experiences with his 8 year old son, Mateo, who was diagnosed at 22 months.

Mike: What time is it over there right now?

Jay: 12. Just after midnight. 12:18.

Mike: You look so awake.

Jay: Helayna is very active at this time of night. We usually don’t sleep until 4AM. That’s a good day. Yesterday it was 5AM.

Mike: I hear you, bro. I hear you.

Aliw: So, what happens when a dad realizes he now has to pivot his parenting styles and strategies when his child has such an active mind that they rarely sleep, or are non-verbal and have to navigate through a whole different way of communicating and interacting? How does one cope with an unexpected diagnosis that changes their lives in an instant? Here’s Mike and Jay. Let’s listen in.

Jay: Hi, Mike.

Mike: Hey, Jay.

Jay: Thank you so much for taking this time to sit down with me, and basically, answer a few questions that I’ve had since, you know, my having a daughter that has been diagnosed with autism, and you having I believe a son, Mateo. I would really love to hear, like, your insights to my questions, being further down in this journey than I am. So thank you so much for taking this opportunity with me.

Mike: No, thank you, Jay. It’s great to meet you. And I say thank you because it’s important for us to share our stories. When we share our stories, we help one another. Thank you. Thank you so much. This is great.

Jay: I wanted to ask – how did it start for you?

Mike: For Mateo, he was formally diagnosed shortly before he turned…shortly before he turned two, when my wife, Myra, had started to notice some things about our son when it comes to what we would normally see as milestones for children his age for toddlers. And I just remember coming home from Church. And, you know, I can see that something was troubling her. And then she just simply said, “I think Mateo is autistic. I knew nothing about autism to begin with…

(audio fades)

Aliw: And that was the start of their journey. From that moment of a mother’s instinct, they began to see medical professionals and months later, by the summer of 2015, their beautiful boy, Mateo was officially diagnosed as autistic.

Jay: So how was that emotionally? For the both of you?

Mike: It was the weight of reality settling in. It had been this up and down journey of like, does he really have autism? Are we just overthinking this? Is he just missing some markers, some milestones? And it’s our fault, because we haven’t done enough with him? I don’t know. Right? So when we finally received that official diagnosis, I remember when we were just walking back from the doctor’s office to the vehicle. I don’t remember us actually talking on the way back to the vehicle. And it’s just when we all got inside the car, and Myra and I, we just looked at each other. And both of us were just so teary eyed. It was that moment of acceptance that this is our son. And he comes from God.

At that very moment, we had a prayer, thanking God and helping us really begin to understand not only our son, and what his journey could entail, but thanking God to help us understand the kind of journey that we need to take as a family.

Jay: We have our daughter Layna. Currently four years old. And she was two years old also when she was diagnosed, when we had our, you know, the regular checkups that she had just to make sure she was hitting her milestones, that’s when the nurse noticed some signs that led to autism.

I think that was the biggest struggle for us, that we didn’t have a definite answer because of the pandemic causing a lot of delays. We had to see three different professionals just to make sure that the diagnosis was correct. And when she was officially diagnosed, it was already like a breath of relief for us. But when we first found out that she might potentially be on the spectrum for autism, it was, I would say, very heartbreaking for both Gem and I.

It’s really different, when it actually impacts your family directly. And Layna is our first child. We had all these dreams that we were thinking about. And then when we already had an idea of what challenges somebody with autism could have. And when we find out that our daughter will be facing those challenges, you know, it crushed us a little bit. That’s putting it gently. It crushed, crushed us a lot.

I guess the question I want to ask is, what would you say to another dad, in particular another father that has just been told that their child is on the autism spectrum?

Mike: I would have to ask, what in particular with your situation, your dreams for your child? What in particular was heartbreaking for you, and for your wife, when you found out?

Jay: We had dreams of, I guess…I guess the conversations that we would have, and the, you know, the adventures that we would have with her, as she grew up older, and, you know, for my wife, it was also things such as for her, eventually, going, walking down the aisle and being a grandma, for my wife and us being grandparents.

The first month, it was really a lot of prayers. And really, it was, through those prayers, that we were able to find the courage to face what we needed to face, to do what needed to be done.

Mike: From your original question, somebody who just finds out that their child is on the spectrum, and then they might be feeling lost? You know, I would let them know that—I would argue that you’re actually not lost. But once we get that official diagnosis, well, now we know.

Jay: That’s right. It was really God who stepped in and helped us change our mindset.

Mike: And this is actually something I had to remind my mother, not too long ago. And you know, my mother, she loves her grandson to death. And she keeps sharing with us how she’s always praying for her grandson. And what’s interesting is that she, in her prayers, would say that. To help Mateo become normal. Right? And I had to remind my mother. You know what, Mateo… this is his normal…

But I think instead of feeling lost, at least now you know, the direction you needed to take. Right? And it’s not easy. It’s never going to be easy. And it’s too simple to say you have to accept it. This is who they are.

Aliw: You know, I can’t say that I know exactly what Mike or Jay have had to go through, but as a parent, I can definitely understand that fear that sets in when you receive life-altering news about your child, fear of what’s to come and the never-ending questions that keep you up at night.

Jay: So, we have those questions such as “Will my child ever be able to speak?” And “Will they be able to look after themselves?” “Will they be able to find love?” Because as parents, and even before we even found out any of this diagnosis for her, our concern was always like, make sure that she’s prepared and she’s ready to face life by herself.

Mike: You know, in my case, it’s like I had that thought, “Is my name going to be carried to the next generation?” Right? Because he’s my only son, like how, like, how selfish and how archaic is that thought, right?

Jay: It’s like, how are they going to be when we pass away? Will they be able to understand the things that they need to do, and especially as members of the Church Of Christ, will they be able to comprehend what they need to comprehend so that they can remain inside the Church?

The question I have for you, Mike, is what do you tell yourself so that you can find the courage to continue doing what you need to do, and just to and carry on?

Mike: Simply, we have to get him to salvation. We can dream and we can wish, we can pray for our children to gain a certain understanding and skills that will help them in life. But everything that we will be dreaming of, everything that we would be praying for, all of those are necessary for our child, in the end, to get to salvation.

So, that is the one thing that just being a Christian dad, you can research parenting books, you can look up on websites on how to be a great father and all that, but we keep hearing it in the worship service all the time, we keep hearing it from ministers, God already gave us the blueprint in the Bible. Right?

I remember Emirick Haro, she mentioned this in a Faith Speaks that she did a long time ago, she was talking about her son. And I just remember her mentioning that she came to the realization that her son doesn’t really belong to her, or her husband. Her son Russell actually belongs to God. Right? And Mateo, our son – he came from God. So, we have to get him to salvation. What is it that we can do to help him so that he can grow to love God?

Interestingly enough, we started this prayer a long time ago. It was on the heels of a video streaming worship service. And, if I remember correctly, it was an ordination of new ministers. And I remember holding Mateo in my arms that day in the prayer for those newly ordained ministers. It hit me. Why can’t Mateo be a minister? From that point on, that has been our prayer for Mateo.

Jay: Wow.

Aliw: Jay, being a son of a minister himself, was quite surprised at the dreams and aspirations and prayers Mike had for his son, Mateo.

Mike: Sure, we want God to help him to do the things that we do, so that he himself can actually grow up to take care of himself. But if the goal is to get him to salvation, praying for him to become a minister? What does that require? Well, he needs to learn how to speak. He needs to learn how to socialize with people, he needs to understand other people, and therefore to be able to understand their problems, he has to ultimately comprehend the words of our Almighty God, right?

Jay: Right. Yes.

Mike: And ultimately, he has to grow to love God. That’s going to get him to salvation. Right. So that has been our prayer for our son.

Jay: It’s really just follow the path, follow the blueprint.

I think fear plays a big role in needing to do the things that we need to do. Sometimes, I guess we second guess ourselves. It’s like, are we doing the right thing? Is this really helping Layna?

Mike: Yeah.

Jay: And that’s kind of why we have a lot of late nights is that the majority of the time her energy is really high. She is always so happy. Right? And it’s very hard to calm her down. But when she’s down, when she’s sad, oh, you’ll know it from a mile away.

Mike: Absolutely.

Jay: And it’s hard, she can’t tell you why she’s not feeling happy. And you have to, you know, we’ve learned a lot by looking at her nonverbal cues, being able to learn a lot more of that. It’s still a guessing game for us.

Mike: We’ve been seeing it in Mateo, how we need to communicate with him to be an active listener. Being able to read his body language, so that we can address what might be bothering him.

Aliw: And it was in this part of the conversation where what started off as thoughts of fears of the unknown, now slowly transitioned to the blessings that they’ve begun to see in their marriages as a result of learning and dealing with the autism diagnosis.

Mike: Over the years we’ve discovered how we need to be better for each other as husband and wife. It could be a challenge for husbands in general, but to read body language, and then to be an active listener. I know it’s our first impulse to try to find a solution, and just fix it. Right? Because we’re fixers, that’s what we do, we fix things. But a lot of the time, we don’t need to be the fixer, we just need to be the listener, we just need to try to understand what’s happening. So in being able to do what we need to do to help us strengthen our relationship with Mateo, in turn, it’s helped us with Micah, our daughter, and in turn, it has also helped Myra and I as husband and wife.

Jay: Over these two years, our relationship has gotten stronger, because not only has our communication skills have become better, it’s, you know, seeing the cues, our patience has gotten better. And overall, just being able to show that love, you know, and having that energy through how you say your words. You know, when we have those bad days, we want to make sure that we’re also in that place of love before we say anything.

Parents who have children who are neurotypical, you know, someone that doesn’t have autism, their child is able to say what they want to say when they want something, or what might hurt or whatever. Whereas with autism, they can get easily overwhelmed with a new environment.

For example, when we bring her to the children’s worship service, right, and there’s, you know, it’s quite loud, there, there’s a lot of children and sometimes before, while you’re waiting for the worship service to start, and even after, the children are quite loud and happy, in general, but for her, that is hard for her to get used to at the moment. And that’s one of many, but one of the triggers that can start off a bad day, because she’s not able to express it.

But would you and your wife together, when you have those bad days, when you aren’t able to console them, eventually becomes overwhelming for you, slowly, when you realize that, how do you and your wife work together to get through it?

Mike: Essentially, we talk it out, we have to talk it out. So, if ever Mateo is having difficulty regulating his emotions, like negative emotions as if he’s not feeling good at all, we can ask him questions. If he reacts to it, then, hey, maybe that’s what actually bothered him. And then we can smooth things out. If he doesn’t react to it, then we’ve got to keep asking him.

And you’re probably finding this with Layna as well. What could be bothering them at that moment actually probably didn’t happen at that moment. It may have been something that happened a few hours ago, it may have been something that happened maybe a couple of days ago, or maybe even last week. But it’s only at that moment that they are expressing their feeling of what happened to them. It’s so important to make them feel safe, that they can share.

Aliw: You know, just listening to Mike and Jay, I could sense that they wake up each day not knowing what to expect, especially since they rarely get much sleep due to their children’s energy. But whatever day they’re having, good or bad, they’re constantly and patiently working to get to the root of the triggers their children have.

Jay: And it’s like, it’s just a lot of this trying to be a detective, trying to figure out what it is.

Mike: Absolutely.

Jay: So, do you guys do anything differently whenever you have the good days with Mateo? How do you celebrate those good days with him?

Mike: Every day, they’re little celebrations throughout each and every day. Celebration is even in the form of he just wants us to get off our phone, or get off our screen, and just sit with him. Because he just wants to feel that connection. He doesn’t need to say the words “Hey, Mom, Dad, you’re on your screen too long. Pay attention to me.” He blocks our view of our screen. So it forces us to put our phone down or whatever. And then he sits on our lap. And then he’s face-to-face with me, giggling and laughing. And it’s like, “It’s my time now.”

There are times where Myra and I, we’ll have a very animated discussion. You know what he’ll do? He’ll come between us. He literally will grab our hands and make us hold our hands.

Jay: Oh, wow.

Mike: And then he’ll make us face each other. And then he’ll make us face him. And then he’ll start giggling.

Jay: Layna actually did something, not quite like that. This was one of those very early mornings, where she’s very happy. It’s 3am, (she) doesn’t want to go to sleep. Gem was watching something. And Layna went up to her, looked at her phone, and Gem thought, “Oh, maybe she’s interested as well at what I’m watching.” She leaned over, pressed the pause button, (and) put the phone away.

Mike: Wow.

Jay: It’s like, I guess in a way, she’s telling mommy to “pay attention to me,” right?

When she does things like that. And then she looks at you with her big round eyes. It’s like, she doesn’t have to say it, you just know it. We celebrate when we get those moments with her.

What are some, you know, difficult truths that you’ve faced over the past six years of having to tell other people, explaining to them your child’s diagnosis? And did you have to do anything particular to overcome those?

Mike: One difficult truth is that, even though Mateo can’t use words, he will express himself vocally and he can do so loudly. Right? Very loud.

Jay: I can relate to that.

Mike: Even though there might have been these weird or uncomfortable glares or stares coming from others, it’s still important for us as a family to make Mateo feel like, “You know, maybe you’re a little bit loud. But don’t worry about what other people may be feeling at this time. Because we want you to feel comfortable wherever you’re going to be, wherever you go.” So it’s not so much talking to other people and trying to get them to understand Mateo.

Jay: That’s what we eventually figured out – that it’s really her being happy. It’s the way that she expresses her happiness. So we shouldn’t be ashamed of that.

Mike: Wherever he is, if he’s at home, if he’s at Church, if we’re out and about, he knows that we’re not going to change our tone or the way that we speak to him. So that will lend to that feeling of safety for him. That, “Yeah, we’re going to talk to you the same way that we talk to you at home, dude.”

Jay: Thanks, Mike.

Mike: No, thank you.

Jay: Thank you so much for answering the questions that I had. It really helped, gave more insights to it, and what to expect, and things that I was unsure of. Thank you for giving your explanation being further along in this journey. It really gives us that hope. It’s really been a great discussion. Thank you so much.

Mike: Thank you. This has been so awesome. And just being able to share stories, and just being able to verbalize just really just helps me like reflect at the same time. This is almost kind of therapeutic as well.

Jay: I was about to say. You’re actually the first dad that I’ve spoken to, at length, about, you know, autism having a child with autism. And it’s been, like you said, it’s been therapeutic. It’s been good.

Mike: Awesome. Oh, that’s, that’s so great.

Jay: Thank you again, Mike.

Aliw: Mike and Jay, I just want to thank you both. It was really heartwarming, actually, Jay, to hear you say, this is the first time I’ve spoken to another dad. And with everything that you guys talked about today, Jay, what would you say was your biggest takeaway?

Jay: My biggest takeaway would be how Mike highlighted, how when we have our prayers, and we pray to Almighty God. It’s really about our child, and changing and shifting our mindset, that we are still parents, they belong to God. And we’re just there to lead them to salvation.

Aliw: Yeah. And for you, Mike. Well, you’ve been on this journey for, you know, eight years now, Mateo’s eight. Have you ever talked, talked it out, talked it through with another dad the way you did today?

Mike: It’s the same thing with me. This is by far the most, aside from Myra, the most that I have talked about my son, and our family life. And it was truly therapeutic, to really just not only hear, but to feel those ideas that have been in my head, and in my heart for eight years. So, thank you.

Aliw: Why do you think it’s just as important for dads to get emotional support?

Mike: Silently suffering. Right? Part of that, because as a head of household, as a father, as a Christian dad, like, you’re expected to, to provide for your family, but that’s not just materially. You have to be there emotionally. And if you want to, if you’re somebody who’s always kept your emotions in check, you’re not going to be the leader you need to be. It’s important to talk freely in that way with your spouse. It’s important to be that active listener for your spouse, but especially for your children.

Aliw: So you’re both functioning with no sleep. I admire the fact that you are both and your wives are so much more in tune with your children, as opposed to parents who may have quote, unquote, normal kids. Those good days, where they’re not having a tantrum today, or those good days, while they actually, you know, slept for five hours instead of just two you both take these small moments, these micro blessings. And really, never taking them for granted and realizing, wow, this is God’s blessing for us today. If autism was not in your life, how different of a dad would you be?

Jay: Somebody once said to me that we’re blessed with special children because we’re special parents. But I like to say, or I think what we’ve started to see is that it’s our children that helped us to become special.

Mike: We’ve come to learn how to communicate with Mateo, how to try to understand him, how to help him. This is what we are supposed to do as parents anyways. And I mentioned this before, it’s also helped us in how we have been raising our daughter, as well.

Aliw: You both talked about how autism has helped your communication with your spouses, has helped you be more aware in using the right words, and you know, energy and empathy with your child, so how would you say your journey has also changed your relationship with God?

Mike: Our prayers have to shift. Even though God knows exactly what we’re thinking, but to take what’s so deep in your heart, and to just lay that out for God to receive? I think that’s another big change. Being a man, if you’re going to be emotionally accessible for your family, all the more you have to be that way to God. As a Christian dad, everything that I do, everything that I say, every mistake that I make, is going to impact my entire family. So what are you going to do? You can’t get them to salvation if you don’t keep working on your relationship with God. Because you’re accountable to Him for the sake of your family.

Jay: I don’t want to say that I wasn’t as trusting before. But I feel like I’m trusting even more to God’s plan. As long as we have our complete trust in our Almighty God, and we remain faithful, we have our prayers, and we continue our, you know, our devoted services to Him, He’s going to take care of us, He’s going to take care of Layna.

Mike: We continue to grow in our prayers. The thing is, though, we can’t stop serving Him. And you know, and over the last couple of years, and in part of the needs of our local congregation because of this pandemic is, you know, I just felt encouraged to do more to help out my local congregation as well. God’s given you so much, what can you do more for him as well?

Jay: That’s another thing I just realized also. You’d think that someone who’s just found out that their only child has been diagnosed with autism, and the challenges that’s presented in front of you, you’d think that oh, they won’t have time to take up any more duties. And for both Gem and myself, we’ve actually taken up extra duties in, not only in our local congregation, but also for our district.

Aliw: Thank you both. Thank you so much. My kids are older, but I’ve learned a lot from what you both have shared, and I think that there’s so many parents that can really learn a lot from this, whether or not they have children on the spectrum. So, thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for sharing your heart. And thank you for trusting, Making Changes to tell your story.

We’re glad to have been able to help you with your therapy and you will be getting the bill in your email. I’m just kidding. Thank you guys.

Jay: Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Aliw.

Mike: Thank you so much. Thank you.

Aliw: Hope you both get some sleep!

Aliw: Special thanks to Mike and Jay for taking the time to share their stories and life lessons with us. And if you found value in what you heard today, please share it with a friend or a dad who may be experiencing what Mike and Jay are going through. And we’d greatly appreciate it if you can leave a review on wherever platform you’re listening from. Be sure to subscribe to Making Changes to stay up to date with new episodes. For more inspiring content or to learn more about the Iglesia Ni Cristo Church Of Christ, log on to incmedia.org or download the INC Media app.

Thanks for listening. And may your change uplift you.

Expressions of Gratitude

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It’s our host, Aliw’s turn to say thank you to someone who introduced her to musicals which her whole family has grown to love and enjoy, plus, we’ll hear other thank you messages from people who have been recipients of human kindness.

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Making Changes: Expressions of Gratitude

Aliw Pablo: Hi, Tita Bong, how are you?

Tita Bong: I’m fine, Aliw. Thanks for having me.

Aliw Pablo: Yes, you’re so welcome. We invited you today because nearly 30 years ago, you did something for us. And it was so simple. I’m sure you never even thought about it.

Tita Bong: That’s way too long ago. That’s a long time and you think at my age I’ll remember that, right?

Aliw Pablo: From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through, and the life lessons we learn along the way, but always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia, Pablo.

Aliw Pablo: Today, we’re continuing our Thank You Series, which are surprised calls to people who have made a positive change in someone’s life. It’s simply a chance to say thank you.

Aliw Pablo: And this time, it’s my turn to show my gratitude. Today, I get to thank someone who was responsible for my love for Broadway musicals. Okay, but first, let’s set the record straight. I can’t sing. But you know, there is something about watching live stage musicals. It’s the stories, it’s the writing, it’s the music. It’s really storytelling at its finest. And my husband, Jason, I mean, I would, we would have never discovered our love for stage musicals together, and passed it over to our kids, if it wasn’t for this person you’re about to meet. And all this because of our aunt Eva, or who we fondly call Tita Bong. Come meet her!

Aliw Pablo: Theatre for stage musicals. Do you remember what year that was…kind of?

Tita Bong: Oh my gosh, what show was it?

Aliw Pablo: It was Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. I think it was 1993, 94 was definitely mid-90’s. And I was in college, I think at the time and you know, and we had never, you know, Joy, and I, you know, my sister, we’ve never really been exposed to musicals, or live stage or anything. And I remember you asked us, Hey, do you guys want to go usher and we’re like, usher? Oh, sure. And, you know, you even allowed us to bring our friends. You allowed us to invite their friends. It was all free.

Aliw Pablo: So Tita Bong was a paid staff Usher at the theaters here in San Francisco. And when they were short staffed, they were allowed to invite volunteer ushers, and all we had to do was pass out playbills and show people to their seats. And once the show started, whatever empty seats there were, it was ours.

Aliw Pablo: But you exposed us to musical theater that I don’t think we would have ever been exposed to. I mean, Filipino parents don’t necessarily encourage their kids to go watch musical theater. But it’s something that, you know, Jason and I, we both really loved it. It was our first time seeing any kind of musical theater, we pass it down to our kids. And now that the Church has lots of stage musicals. I really believe that that’s why our kids are so excited every time there’s stage productions in the church, because we had exposed them to musical theater. And it’s all because you had exposed us to musical theater. So 30 plus years later, Tita Bong I just wanted to say ‘thank you’ for that.

Tita Bong: Oh, my goodness, you’re most welcome. I haven’t done it. I mean, that was back in. I started back in 1981. ‘81 was when I first started at the theater and like you for an initial introduction like that, I was hooked also.

Aliw Pablo: Right. What was your first musical?

Tita Bong: My very first musical, which I did not usher, but I was exposed to was the… I was in London on a training program. I was brought to… we were brought to see Fiddler on the Roof in London.

Aliw Pablo: Fiddler on the Roof. That was your musical.

Tita Bong: Yes. That was my very first musical introduction to the theater. I mean, and from that day forward, I mean, just like you, I was hooked. But I started ushering at the Theater in San Francisco in 1981. I lived in a residential hall close to the theater and one day my friend said that there was an announcement about the theater next door, which is that the Golden Gate Theatre was looking for ushers. I said, usher? Okay, so usher. When I got to the theater, jeez, I saw the theater– huge.

Aliw Pablo: Yes, it doesn’t look much from the outside, but when you go in?

Tita Bong: Yes, it was huge.

Aliw Pablo: What’s amazing for me is being able to see what they can, how in two hours, they can tell a story that transcends time, in a small stage. And yet you’re basically, you know, run back in time transformed and the storytelling and the music, right? And it’s just you’re enthralled as you’re watching it versus watching it on the screen. For you, what has it been? How have you been able to have such a love affair with stage musicals all these years? From Fiddler on the Roof. You know, starting from the late 60s.

Tita Bong: Yes, that was. I love music. I mean, I love music, I am happy to sing. I play the guitar. Well, I played the guitar. So I really like music. And it’s just amazing how those characters come alive on stage. It’s just the things that they do on stage and backstage. It’s just amazing.

Aliw Pablo: For as long as I know Tita Bong, she’s always worked at the theater. But this was the first time I heard about all the famous people she’s met who’ve come to see the shows.

Aliw Pablo: So I’m sure you’ve seen all sorts of different things. You know, having worked in the theaters for 40 years or so. Have there been any interesting instances you’ve had with different people, maybe even famous people?

Tita Bong: Yes, yes. There was one I was… I was ushering in the orchestra in the middle of a row. I saw Robin Williams.

Aliw Pablo: Wow.

Tita Bong: And I saw Oh, Robin Williams! And Robin, just instantly said, ssssh, you know, motion to me to be quiet. Oh, and one person that really left a good impact on us, the ushers, specifically, was Lena Horne. Lena Horme made it a point to give us each an autographed picture of all the ushers. We asked why, why of all the people and we learned that she was an usher when she was, before she was a big star.

Aliw Pablo: Big actress, yes. That’s so sweet.

Tita Bong: So she had this special place in our hearts for ushers.

Aliw Pablo: And also, I kind of want to just pivot to how you know, when I started watching musical theater, you know, there wasn’t anything like that, really, at the time in the church. I remember the very first any kind of stage musical type that we got to see here was a 30th anniversary, which was in 1998.

Tita Bong: Right. I remember that.

Aliw Pablo: So that was a big deal. That was a big deal, right in 1998 for the Church to be able to rent this huge I think it was the San Jose Convention Center. That was the first time that we rented a venue that big for us to put our own show, ‘98. And now, my kids, they’re always in stage productions of the Church’s. What can you say about just how music has evolved in the Church, but specifically, stage productions in general in the Church from the time when you were growing up in the Church to when I was growing up to how it is now you know in 2022 or in the 2020s?

Tita Bong: Yes, I mean, in fact, I was so impressed. I think the first time I saw it I was watching the productions of the Church. Now I said, wow, we’ve really evolved because I think during our time, we even had to rework only presenting Filipino folk dance. Yes, so I think eventually when I saw that it was starting to have all these new songs. Some of them were even written by the kids, the brethren now. I was impressed. I was so impressed.

Aliw Pablo: At this point in our conversation, we’re able to reflect on how far musical production has come in the Church Of Christ. And I’m so glad that my kids are able to be part of all these amazing creative projects..

(song lyrics)”…please send us a Minister to teach us. Who can lead us in our name…”

Aliw Pablo: I know, in the Philippines, they’ve done, you know, productions like that already in the arena with the orchestra playing as a full on musical on any of their stages much bigger in the arena, right? Then, for example, in the theaters here, and here, you know, it’s now they think about it, the very first musical we had here in the States was 30 years in the West, which was in 1998 and I did the video directing for it. And I have to say, had you not exposed us to musicals in 1993, if I hadn’t seen those musicals beforehand, it would have been really scary. And then fast forward to the 50 years in the West, which we had here, just, you know, four years ago now.

…give me patience to wait for you to act, the right to fight for the faith…

Aliw Pablo: It has really helped a tremendous deal in being prepared for, you know, video directing those types of productions.

Tita Bong: Yes. And I think it’s the exposure, the exposure to such productions that produces also the interest in the youth to create their own musicals, you know, and I’ve also seen how the Church’s orchestra?

Aliw Pablo: Yes. Yes.

Tita Bong: That is so impressive. We have so many talented musicians in the church, when I saw that…

Aliw Pablo: Oratorio

Tita Bong: Yes, I saw that. Oh, wow.

Aliw Pablo: And we had that in the Philippines in the arena. But the one in New York, we just had one a few years ago in New York.

[oratorio bit]

Aliw Pablo: You know, it’s really amazing, right? How far music transcends all generations and, you know, thank God that we’re doing the same thing and exposing our youth to those types of productions.

Aliw Pablo: But just, I just wanted to say thank you, Tita Bong for walking down memory lane with me today. And I, you know, I know I’ve said thanks before, but I wanted to publicly thank you for being here.

Tita Bong: My pleasure.

Aliw Pablo: The impact, and really the change in us being exposed to musical theater in a way that we would have never been exposed to had it not been for you back in the nineties.

Tita Bong: I’m glad I made an impact on you. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it, too.

Aliw Pablo: I want to entitle this episode as Thank You for the Music. But thank you.

Tita Bong: Thank you.

Aliw Pablo: We’ll see you soon. We’ll see you soon.

Aliw Pablo: Special thanks to my aunt Eva, or Tita Bong as we call her. And I’m glad that 30 years later, I’ve been able to not just say thanks, but to really reflect on the huge impact that her one gesture from decades ago has had on my life. And we’ve all had those moments, you know, where someone does something kind for us that we never forget. But sometimes we don’t always get to see that person again to say thank you. So here are a few stories from our team here at INC Media Studios, and the people they’d like to thank for changing their lives.

Michelle: I want to say thanks to Miss Nancy Ecker. She was one of my English teachers in high school. And she was a fantastic teacher who made books come alive for me, as nerdy as that sounds. But I remember when I was in grade 11, she would recommend these books for me to read. During winter breaks and spring breaks. She would lend me these books from the book room. And they were just books that helped me as a teenager. You know, I was going through a lot of like, teenager stuff at that time, very angsty. And those books kind of helped me deal and understand what I was going through. And she was also really encouraging when it came to my writing. She was very supportive and really encouraged me to pursue literature and writing post high school right after high school. And I took a few detours. But, you know, I eventually ended up here and INC Media, telling stories, connecting people with stories and writing about what matters most to me. So thank you, Miss Acker. Thank you for your encouragement. Thank you for being such an amazing teacher and leaving that mark with me. Up to this point, thank you.

Renezen: I want to say thank you to a wonderful stranger named Adriana from Petaluma, California. I wanted to thank her for the kindness she showed me on October 13, 2001. I was at the San Francisco International Airport when I got the news that my dad had passed away from a sudden heart attack. I was stunned and in shock, did I yell out,did I cry. I’m not really sure. To be honest, the details are a blur to me. But what I do remember is Adriana walking over to talk to me, she must have heard or seen my distress. And instead of turning away she came over and introduced herself. She asked me questions about what happened, where I was from and told me she was from Petaluma. She stayed with me until it was time for me to board my flight home. That was the last time I saw her. I think about that moment from time to time, and of the kindness and warmth she showed me at that moment. I hope one day I can thank her in person, but this will have to do for now. Thank you Adriana.

JJ: I would like to thank my high school teacher, Mr. Green, he was actually my teacher for computer science and computer engineering. And back in those classes, he would actually enroll the students in the class in competitions for computer programming, robotics. The way he would help us and teach us approaching these competitions was how to tackle problems differently. He was very encouraging for us to find the solution now in our own ways. He really sparked in us the ability to search for ourselves instead of providing answers for us. And it really helped me in my way of looking for solutions to problems and problem solving.

Christine: I’d like to thank Emma Solberg and her family. I met Emma Solberg in junior high. And her family would take Emma’s classmates, including myself, to different trips up and down the East Coast, for art galleries, for museums, and also to Shakespeare festivals. And that opened up to me the world of you know, literature and the arts. And that’s what I think pushed me to become a film studies major, and make the arts part of my career.

Brother Joe: I wanted to say thank you to Miss Taffy Patton, an elementary school teacher whom I had long ago. She helped to spark in me a love of learning that continues to this day. She helped to nurture my creativity. And I can honestly say that her genuine concern and personal approach to teaching, would help to inspire me to also take that path that led me to becoming first children’s worship service teacher as a teenager, and now minister of the gospel. She was more than just a teacher. She was a great mentor, and a great friend. And her enthusiasm for guiding her students towards not just understanding the material, but in achieving excellence is one which all teachers, whatever subject they happen to teach, can learn from. I know that I certainly have. And so thank you so much Miss Patton, for everything that you’ve done. For your great influence in my life, and in the lives of many students who have been truly blessed and fortunate to have encountered you in their studies.

Aliw Pablo: Thank you to everyone who has shared their stories of change and gratitude. Now is there someone that has made a huge impact in your life that you’d like to thank? We’d love to hear from you. Send us a direct message on our Instagram account at Making Changes Podcasts. And we’d love to try and connect you with an old friend, classmate, mentor or anyone who you want to thank. So if you found value in what you heard today, be sure to subscribe to this podcast so you’ll always be up to date with the latest episodes. While you’re at it, feel free to leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening, and may your change uplift you.

Thanking My College Counselor

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Our ‘Thank You Series’ continues, and in this episode, Jan says thank you to her college counselor who believed in her and changed the course of her life nearly 20 years ago.

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Thanking My College Counselor

Aliw Pablo: Hi, Jan.

Jan Valerio: Hello.

Aliw Pablo: Can you believe it? You finally made it on the Making Changes podcast.

Jan Valerio: I know. (singing) Some people wait a lifetime for moments like this.

Aliw Pablo: I didn’t know there was a singing contest on the podcast.

Jan Valerio: That’s why they won’t ever let me man a podcast. But now that I have the chance I’m going to sing.

Aliw Pablo: This is Jan, a senior producer here at INC Media. And today, she’s gonna thank someone who she hasn’t seen in nearly 20 years.

Aliw Pablo: Yes, do whatever you like. So tell us who are we talking to today?

Jan Valerio: Today we’re talking to Sheldon TaKwata, who I like to call Mr. T. He was my college guidance counselor. And he was the one who helped me dream myself out of Kalihi. A small town in Hawaii. I never thought I was gonna leave the islands.

Aliw Pablo: From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way…always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo. Welcome to season2! Whether you’re listening to this while driving, working out or walking the dog, we’re so glad you’re choosing to spend your time with us! So we’re starting this season with a “Thank you Series” – it’s basically surprise phone calls or video calls to people who have made a positive change in someone’s life, and it’s a chance to say thank you.

And today it’s Jan’s turn, who was born and raised in Honolulu, Hawaii and we’re calling her community college counselor Mr. Sheldon Tawata, also from Hawaii.

Aliw Pablo :Are you nervous about seeing him? When was the last time you saw him?

Jan Valerio: I know last time I saw him was when I left Kapiolani Community College. But yeah, he helped me to reach my goals. Having the opportunity to say thank you to him. It’s actually kind of exciting.

Aliw Pablo: So in one sentence, How did Mr. T change your life, you think?

Jan Valerio: How did he change my life? He changed my life in a way where there were I could see opportunities. I really started taking school seriously after I met him.

Aliw Pablo: Okay, well, I think it’s time let’s, let’s go ahead and see if Mr. T is online.

Jan Valerio: Okay, I hope he remembers me. It’s been a long time.

Aliw Pablo: All right. Let’s see if Mr. T is on. Thanks, Jan.

Jan Valerio: Thank you. Thank you for making this happen, Making Changes podcast.

Aliw Pablo: Hi, Sheldon. How are you? Thank you so much, Sheldon, for agreeing to do this, you know?

Sheldon Tawata: No, it’s my pleasure. Oh my gosh.

Aliw Pablo: Yeah. Were you surprised though, that you get a random call about a former student from years and years ago?

Sheldon Tawata: You know what you told me the year? I couldn’t believe it was that long ago but it still, seems like yesterday, we’re sitting in an office together trying to figure out her leaving Oahu. Which is mind blowing still. think as you probably know, any youth leaving Hawaii, that’s a huge, huge step, but huge.

Aliw Pablo: Yeah. Jan refers to coming to California as coming to America. Because, you know, the mainland for her is America. You know, moving to… Yeah, it’s a big step. It’s a big step. Well, without further ado, here’s your former student, Jan Valerio. Jan, come say hi.

Jan Valerio: Good morning, Mr. T!

Sheldon Tawata: Oh, my God!

Jan Valerio: This guy is the man.

Sheldon Tawata: So leading up to this day, you know how images come up in your mind? You think, Okay, this student did this, or this student did that. And I don’t know why this image stuck in my mind. And this could be true Jan form. But she probably won’t remember this. But when she was at KCC she would have her scooter on campus.

Jan Valerio: Yes.

Sheldon Tawata: And go from one class to the next. I thought, too. Is she that lazy? And just joking?

Jan Valerio: No, that’s true.

Sheldon Tawata: But I thought there was no one, no one on campus that did that. And so when I saw that, I thought, That’s Jan, you know, didn’t really,

Sheldon Tawata: That’s the true Jan form. Like she is who she is she is going to do what she’s going to do. She doesn’t care what other people think. That’s Jan.

Jan Valerio: Yes, Mr. T, yes, I did have a scooter. I can’t believe you remember that?

Jan Valerio: I barely remember that. But now that you bring it up, I’m like, Yes, I did scooter on campus all the time. So I wanted to thank you, Mr. T. for being part of this podcast when Aliw said that the theme of the podcast was a Thank You series. You were the first person that popped into my head.

Sheldon Tawata: Oh, my goodness.

Jan Valerio: Because I’m being honest with you. Every time I find myself, in a spot where I’m like, man, you know, I’m in a good spot in my life. I love what I do. I always think back to how Mr. T believed in me, because I have to, I don’t remember, if I told you who I was in high school, I wasn’t a good student, I did the minimum. And when you’re doing the minimum, the teachers I grew up with, they would say things like, “you know, if you don’t have good grades, you can’t go to college.” “If you don’t have good grades, you can’t go to even a vocational school, you can’t do this, you can’t get a good job.” So in my head, I was always thinking, there’s no opportunities for me because I, I wasn’t motivated. My outlook was small. So the only thing people were telling me was like, go to community college. But my grades and my confidence were so low that I was thinking, what if a community college doesn’t even accept me? Until one day during the summer before transitioning to KCC (Kapiolani Community College.) There was a little dream in my heart, like I had bought a camera. And I was starting to film things and putting things together. I was like, this is interesting, maybe, maybe there’s something for me here in broadcasting, or I knew I had to do broadcasting or film. And then I remember walking around campus, (Audio fades)

ALIW VO: It all began with a flyer that Jan saw on one of the campus bulletin boards that had a happy face on it that made her go see a counselor. That’s how she first Mr. Sheldon Tawata who encouraged her to check out SF or San Francisco State University to pursue a major in Broadcast Journalism.

JAN: And you said, “Have you heard of SF State? I said, “No, but that sounds fancy.” And then you said, and then you said, “I actually came from there.” And I looked at you with bright eyes. And I was like, Oh, this guy came from the mainland, he knows he has experience he can teach me. So you’re giving me this whole two year plan for me all these classes to take. And then at the end, it was kind of overwhelming for me, This was the first time you even looked at me. And you’re like, Jan, this requires some hard work. I looked at you and I said, “Okay, you think I can do this?” And then you said, “Can, Jan, can.” And then I said, this is the first time anyone has ever told me, “can,” because in high school, they said “can’t.” But after talking to you, and you said, “Can” I was like, maybe, maybe there’s hope here. And then I walked out of that of your office thinking. Maybe it’s just today I feel motivated. But then you emailed me and you said, Hey, how’s it going? Come to me once a week, so we can make sure you’re on the right plan. So I started coming in once a week.

ALIW VO: And from there, what began as once a week counseling session, became 3x a week for Jan. Everytime Jan had challenges with her classes and felt like giving up, Mr T would tell her “just stick to it, Jan” and he even found a tutor for her for classes that she was struggling with. And when it came to financial aid assistance, he helped her fill out all the required paperwork and even told her what to expect once she moved to the San Francisco Bay Area.

Jan: “…where you’re going to live Jan?” And I said, “I don’t know.” And you said, “I used to live in Westlake it’s foggy there. But it’s okay. And it’s close to SFC, you can take the BART.” I was like, “What is BART?” They don’t have Aloha the bus? And then you said, “No, I may have BART it’s like a train” and I said, “I’ll take that train, mister?” You’re like, “yes.” Like you never sounded annoyed. You’re so encouraging. And then you just, you just helped me. And it’s, what…20 years later, I always think back to how blessed I’ve been in being able to have this career. I work in nonprofit. We work for Christian media. And it’s been such a blast – this journey, doing the job that I love being able to have the college degree to help in this type of meaningful work. So I’m thankful to you. And I actually this is very full circle for me, Mr. T, because Aliw is actually the one who introduced me to this type of work. So she was the one who planted the seed in my heart, and you’re the one who helped me execute it. And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that you went to SF State, I feel like it was all aligned, and God made it happen this way. And to think I never thought that I was going to leave the islands. I never thought I was going to leave Kalihi. But God had other plans. And He allowed me to cross paths with Aliw and you. So I’m thankful actually, to both of you.

Sheldon Tawata: You know, what’s amazing about that story is I always, I don’t know, maybe this is the reason why I’m on high blood pressure medicine because every time I meet with students, I want to make sure that they are doing the best for themselves. And the thing for me, even as a parent, you want to intervene, you want to dare I say control, because you just want to make sure that folks are living a healthy and fruitful life. And so to be on the sidelines, I gotta tell you, super stressful. And so when you mentioned “Hey Mr. T I think I want to go to the mainland.” I was like, “Okay, let’s go.” But my palms are sweaty, and my blood pressure’s high. But in my but I think like with all of us, there’s this degree of faith, right? You just have to just kind of believe. But the fact that you’re in this place right now makes me so unbelievably happy. Because the thing that I feel people don’t know what they have inside themselves is resiliency. And that goes a long way. And so Jan, if you think if you can think back to the moment, not the moment you bought your… Well, let’s think back to that point. Think back to the moment you bought your plane ticket. Was it a one way ticket or two-way? Was it a round trip or one way?

Jan Valerio: It was one way.

Sheldon Tawata: What did that feel like?

Jan Valerio: Honestly, I was scared. Because like I said, like you even mentioned, this is a new place. This is why I’m leaving everything I know. And do they even speak my language too? Will they understand Pidgin? Will I learn English? But…

Jan Valerio: But yeah, like, buying that plane ticket was scary because it is a leap of faith. But I kept thinking, you know, God brought me to this point. Mr. T believed in me. But you know, there was a time where I was here after six months, and it was foggy an d I was like, “Ha, I’m gonna go home. I know more money for my financial aid is running out.” But I’m gonna come home as a loser. Nah. I don’t like come home as a loser. You know, I’m gonna stick it out. I’m gonna stick it out.

Sheldon: So at your six month point, like what made you push through?

What really pushed me to stay. I was able to get a tuition waiver for SF State that allowed me to pay my tuition. I went to the registrar’s office to see how much it would cost because my family was having financial difficulties at the time too. I’m waiting for some crazy amount. And they the lady at the registrar’s office said $3, and I was like, what?” $3! I said these four full time classes. And she was like, yeah, $3 and Mr. T, I kid you not, I had $5 in my pocket. And I gave it to her. I didn’t question her or anything. I went home…

Sheldon Tawata: And you got change back then.

Jan Valerio: I got change back. When I went home, I checked my status online. And it said that I got a tuition waiver, which is something I don’t remember signing up for how I got to this day, but I do know that it was through my prayers, because I kept praying and I said, you know, God, should I stay or should I go, and this was a clear sign for me to stay. And so, being at this point right now, I’m like, after that I was like, I just gotta keep going. I just gotta keep going. Because the signs were clear, like having you helped me. And then once I was here in SF, having that tuition waiver, it was like, all signs point to “yes.”

Sheldon Tawata: Oh my gosh. So as you probably know, I’m still working with youth. So this past August, I think I will make 20 or 21 years at KCC.But in the mean, there’s what’s neat about my job, everyone has a story to tell and what makes being in my profession such a gift is that I get to hear everyone’s story. But what always fills me is when they talk about it. s word up again, as resiliency when I hear their story of how they’ve overcome all these challenges and just kind of push through. It’s just simply amazing. It’s just I can on a deeper level understand because I too, similarly, I went to Roosevelt High School, I wasn’t supposed to graduate. I was told to go rake leaves instead of go to class. I was told I’m better off just hanging out in the vice principal’s office versus the classroom. I understand what it feels like to be told you can’t do this. Understand that attention is sometimes taken away from you because you don’t shine like the others. But to me, I just have this heart felt natural connection for those who have to fend for themselves, who have to dig for resources, because it’s almost a survival thing. And to watch them struggle, which is very uncomfortable for me. But to then see them succeed is like the best gift ever. And so, knowing that, when…

Jan Valerio: You say it’s a gift for you, it’s also like a gift that keeps on giving. And like, like, it’s been years, but I still remember you. And every time I think of you, I’ve always I always think you have been such a great blessing in my life. And it’s, I’m always an advocate when younger people are like I’m lost or whatever. I’m like, talk to your college counselor. Talk to your guidance counselor. But yeah, talk to someone, talk to someone. It helps.

Jan Valerio: Yes, yes. Thank you, Mr. T.

Sheldon Tawata: It’s my pleasure. And oh, my goodness, this couldn’t have been a better day… better year. You know, this is just amazing.

Sheldon Tawata: Thank you. Again, I can’t thank you both enough for this opportunity to be here.

Aliw Pablo: Well, I’m just going to jump in. I know Jan’s really modest and she’s not going to tell you these things, but coming from Kalihi, Jan has traveled the world just to find stories to tell. We’ve gone to South Africa, we’ve done documentaries there. We’ve gone all over Asia. We’ve gone we’ve gone to Australia, and maybe after this Jan was shared with you, but coming from Kalihi, a girl who doesn’t really speak English. She’s actually our producer. She’s our senior producer for one of our shows called Faith Speaks and it’s basically a TED talks for young people. And, you know, she helps write and coach them, helps do their story arcs and mold their stories and so, yeah, she’s really come a long way. And what she’s been able to contribute to the world, to us here at INC Media and to the people whose stories she’s told you know, that’s the impact from you, making time, sitting down with her a couple times a week, and making sure she worked hard and got the sand out of her hair. And just went to work. But what I wanted to ask Mr. T, see, I’m gonna call you, Mr. T now, is that OK?

Sheldon Tawata: That’s totally fine.

Aliw Pablo: Okay…you mentioned that you’ve been doing this now for over 20 years? What is it that keeps you mentoring and helping students like Jan, and those who are lost and helping, carry them, and telling them, “look can, can, can,” you know, and just giving those three letters makes such a huge difference?

Sheldon Tawata: You know, I truly feel that we have this, we have this huge bank of change agents. And some people know it, some people don’t know it. But I feel like every person I meet, they have the ability to make this place, make this world a whole lot better in whatever, whatever contributions they make, be it in media, sport, whatever. And I think when I see that spark happen, like in Jan’s case, when she just kind of saw the potential that’s out there, that, to me, is the motivation. And to see that as my job, I mean, if you can imagine my job is to see people grow into the person that they want to be. And I think that’s what keeps me going. And, Jan, I know, were you and your sister the first in your family to go to college? Did your parents go?

Jan Valerio: Yes, we’re the first. My sister went to college, and my mom was like, “are you gonna go to college? Are you gonna make something of yourself?” And I was like, “I don’t know.” But yeah, it was a big deal.

Sheldon Tawata: Yes, even though I still meet with youth today, where that conversation at the dinner table doesn’t happen, like, what do you, what do you see yourself five years from now? Where do you see yourself 10 years from now? I think the conversation is more, how I am going to pay the bill tomorrow. And so to hear that, I mean, it crushes your heart. But when you see those that just work hard. They embrace reality, and then they try to make that shift. Yeah, that’s what keeps me going.

Aliw Pablo: And also, to your point that the conversations happening at the dinner table isn’t so much about college, but rather, how are we going to pay the bills? In fact, there’s studies right, that show that less and less kids after, during because of the pandemic, or going to college, because of the financial strains that pandemic has brought to families. How different or how much more challenging is it today to work with students because of how much of the world has changed also, higher rates of depression and things like that, mental health compared to almost 20 years ago, during Jan’s class?

Sheldon Tawata: Certain things are just totally changing. It’s becoming okay, now, how do I redefine everything? Now I, because I don’t know what the future truly looks like. And so to me, conversations I had with Jan are very different now because it’s more, how are you able to reshape the next, the next move or how you better reshape what your next plan is going to be? Folks always had the ability. But now more than ever, you have the ability to be even a huge change agent because you can rewrite the script now.And so knowing your tools that you have, whatever passion that you have, how can you make it your own now because again, you can write your own script, And to see them struggle with that it’s still stressful. But to see them come up with possible solutions is also exciting. I mean, I only saw Jan, up until like, maybe her third year of college. And after that, it’s like I had to let her go, I had to let her kind of venture, I gotta let her fly. And then it’s like, Okay, I hope she’s gonna be okay. And so that’s hundreds of students like that. It’s like, okay, I have to let them go. And then just see how they do. But I always tell them, I’m always on the sidelines for you. And if you ever need to come back to reconnect, to just be a soundboard, I’m more than happy to just kind of hear your story. But that part of even now watching them take flight, in light of everything that’s happening in this world– but also kind of a joy to see what they’re going to do.

Aliw Pablo: As a counselor, what would be your advice to students who may be listening to this, but maybe they don’t have a guidance counselor to help them. But what would be your advice for the first step in them wanting to create a change to start their future?

Sheldon Tawata: Talk to Jan and own a scooter. Nah, just joking. That seems to be the secret. But, I think it would be…talk to someone, it may not have to be a, like a college counselor or guidance counselor or whatever, but someone you trust, someone that, you know, won’t pass judgment. And having that space where you can lay out all your ideas on the table, and just have a dialogue. I think that’s where it starts. Because then you’re then in a place where you are, again, free of judgment, and you’re just kind of flowing with your thoughts. And then I think that’s a start.

Aliw Pablo: Would you say that God put Mr. T in your life for a reason? When you look at the path that God has laid out for you, how much of it was divine guidance, you think?

Jan Valerio: Oh, definitely. I prayed a lot about my future. And I remember the moment I was inspired to do the work that I wanted to do. I started praying and that’s when I met Mr. T. And I believe God sent him there. He was a blessing in my life. God put him there.

Aliw Pablo: Well, this was so awesome. I want to thank you both. And you know, Mr. T, when she spoke about you, she just had such, you know, like, a glimmer in her eyes and so you should have seen her eyes when I said, hey, guess what he called back. He’s got to be on this show. So you know, you said she’s made your day, she’s made your year. I think for Jan, it’s even more so, huh, Jan? This is your dream. This was your dream, number one to be on the podcast. And number two, to get Mr. T on.

Jan Valerio: Mr. T, I always work behind the camera behind the scenes. I think they think I’m a liability or something when I’m on so, now I’m on!

Aliw Pablo: You can attest to that of all people right, Mr. T?.

Jan Valerio: And I’m so excited to share this platform to be able to thank you because you’re not I know when I left. I said thank you. I emailed you when I left. I said thank you. Maybe five years afterwards, I emailed you again. And I was like, thank you. But I think I will never we’ll never stop being thankful for what you’ve done for me. Like I said before, in high school. There were a lot of can’ts. You were the only one who said “can.”

Sheldon Tawata: Thank you so much, Jan. This is very special. Thank you. Thank you.

Jan: Thank you Making Changes for making this happen!

Aliw Pablo: Special Thanks to Mr T and Jan, for being part of our thank you series. Gosh, this episode just goes to show what a difference one person can make in changing someone’s life.

So if you have a “Mr T” that you’d like to thank for making a change in your life, send us a message on our Making Changes instagram account. We’d love to hear from you and maybe even have you both on the show!

If you enjoyed what you heard today, please share it with a friend and we’d greatly appreciate it if you can leave a review on whatever platform you’re listening from. Be sure to subscribe to Making Changes to stay up to date with new episodes. For more inspiring content or to learn more about the Iglesia Ni Cristo Church of Christ, log on to incmedia.org or download the INC Media app.

Thanks for listening. And may your change uplift you.

Christian Brotherhood

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In this first episode of our “Thank You Series,” we hear about a friendship that has lasted over 30 years. Brother Eric Waterman surprises Brother Bob Pellien to thank him for the impact and change he’s had in his life. It’s a heartfelt conversation between two ministers of the gospel whose lives are connected by their duty and love for God.

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Aliw Pablo: Hi, Brother Eric, thank you so much for joining us. And before we bring on our guest that you’re going to thank, can you tell us a little something Brother about who you’re going to be thanking today?

Brother Eric Waterman: Today, I’m thanking Brother Bob Pellien. I met Brother Bob Pillien back in 1989, he introduced me to my beautiful wife and then he married my son, and he’s been there on all the important occasions of my life and always been there whenever I needed him, good times, bad times, storms and sunny days and rainy days. You know, just a real solid brother, a really nice friend, you know, could never count your blessings. But he’s one of the greatest blessings of my life.

Aliw Pablo: From INC Media Audio, this is Making Changes, a podcast about the changes we go through and the life lessons we learn along the way…always with God by our side. I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo.

Hi everyone! Welcome to season 2 of Making Changes. I know it’s been a while we’re really excited to share this new season with you. You know, it’s not surprising that everyone who works on this podcast loves to hear stories about big life changes, the pivotal moments in our lives when everything begins to shift. But lately, we’ve also been talking a lot about those friends, acquaintances, sometimes, complete strangers—those individuals who become instrumental in making these big changes in our lives. And that’s exactly what brought us to season 2 of Making Changes.

We’re calling this our “Thank You” series—it’s basically surprise phone calls or video calls to people who have made a positive change in someone’s life, and it’s a chance to say thank you.

Today, we’ll hear from Brother Eric Waterman, a minister of the gospel who will be talking to a friend and fellow minister who has had a great impact in his life for over 30 years. Let’s listen in…

Brother Eric Waterman: Good morning, Brother Bob. How are you there?

Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Eric! Nice to hear from you, Brother. We haven’t talked in a long, long time. How have you been? How’s the family?

Brother Eric Waterman: Oh we’re very well, Brother.

Brother Bob Pellien: So are you getting old yet?

Brother Eric Waterman: Yes, I hit the big 65 last year. So I’m officially a senior citizen. So I have my senior moments now. So but I try, I try my best to be happy.

Brother Bob Pellien: There you go.

Brother Eric Waterman: Brother Bob, I just wanted to take the moment to really from the bottom of my heart, really, thanks for always being there. Always being a great friend. And always for the constant reminders, the advice, your kindness, the care, the counsel. You know, you’ve counseled me with my mom, with my ministry and my membership with my wife, with my family and with my kids. I mean, whenever I needed it, it just seemed like I got through to you, you know, and like, you were you were the cavalry, man. You were always you know, when I was surrounded, and the Indians were all around me, you would always just say, Brother, you know, we’re sending the cavalry. And every time you know, it was just there. And, you know, that’s what friends are for, you know, to the good times.

Brother Bob Pellien: We really consider you Brother Eric, a very dear friend and an important part of our family and our life too. But no need to thank me because it’s God that is good. You know, and you know that as a Minister, and I’m sure you tell that to members of the Church all the time. It’s God, that’s good. You know, and if ever I have shared anything with you, that has helped you or then I join you in thanking God for that, because, you know, you’ve been awesome for the Church, you have touched the lives of many and you know, if you consider me even a small part of, of your life and becoming who you are, well, I join you in thanking God for that. You’re pretty awesome, too. And I’m glad to see that you’re there and happy and performing your ministry, like you are, you know. Must be the upstate New York in you, I guess.

Brother Eric Waterman: Well, I don’t really know, you know. The work ethic, you know, you really set the bar quite high. And when we used to do our landscaping projects and those…

Brother Bob Pellien: You remember that?

Brother Eric Waterman: Yes, those improvement projects Brother Bob was like the ‘energizer bunny’ never slept and he’s always on the go, go, go. There’s always something to do, something to repair, something to paint, something to plan. And then we always were able to get on the road. (audio fade, conversation under VO)

Aliw Pablo: And with that, these two brothers who are both from New York, went down memory lane and went thirty years back and began recalling everything from gardening projects at the chapel compound, to long drives to visit local congregations…to late night pecan pie a la modes.

Brother Eric Waterman: And then do you remember the late night counseling sessions at Denny’s with the pecan pie and the alamode?

Brother Bob Pellien: I remember those days. We couldn’t finish the day without swinging by at the end of the day, usually like midnight. Get our pecan pie ala mode. Don’t forget the ala mode. You got to have a little vanilla ice cream there with that, right?

Brother Eric Waterman: How about the old days when you did the recording upstairs in CWS (Children’s Worship Service) Chapel of LA, that little room with one machine with one camera?

Brother Bob Pellien: Oh, yes, yes, that was, that was a different time. The Church media Brother Eric now has really, really grown since those days, I tell you. Since those L.A. days when we used to be up there and that second floor and behind the LA chapel.

Brother Eric Waterman: And that big tape machine with the big thick tape. The big…

Brother Bob Pellien: 400 pounds thing. Yes.

Brother Eric Waterman: You always inspired me. And then those were after days of planting, doing landscaping, doing visitation, doing all kinds of things. And then we’d go there in the middle of the night because of the traffic in LA. And then you’d record. And then those were the miracle moments where really God guided us home, holding on to the steering wheel as you were making your way back home.

Brother Bob Pellien: Yes, I’m very thankful to you, too Brother Eric, because you stuck with me, during all those late night works at the studio there in LA along with Brother Ed Maranan. You know, we were a good team. And I am thankful that you are always there to point the camera in the right direction.

Brother Eric Waterman: Everything was new to me.

Aliw Pablo: And it was at this point in the conversation when Brother Bob went back to that very first day they met in 1989 when Brother Eric was a guest at one of the worship services that Brother Bob officiated. Based on that first meeting, no one could have guessed this is how it was all going to turn out.

Brother Bob Pellien: You know. It’s so thrilling to see you having joined the ministry and come so far and and since then, because when you first arrived and we were doing our bible exposition or it was a worship service maybe, but I remember coming out to the lobby, reaching out my hand you know, you were a newcomer there, reach out my hand, shake your hand, welcome you. Before even saying “Hello, nice to meet you.” Any kind of normal thing. Do you remember what you said? I remember, remember it explicitly. You said not like “Hello” or anything…you said, “I’m not staying, you know, I’m just here because of this guy that I drove. I’m not staying so and I won’t be here again.” But well, you know, I remember thinking to myself, well, “That’s what you say right now. We’ll see what God says, you know?” And sure enough, again, I don’t know if you remember so but the next day, you were there! You came back!

Brother Eric Waterman: And that was a two hour drive from Newport. You know, with the traffic, I had to go through three freeways. And then everybody that knew me said, “You’re out of your mind. You’re going to East LA, you’re on the beach, why would you go to East LA, there’s no purpose there.” So I remember the Bible studies upstairs. You know, when you have the overhead. Brother Bob this is a true story, huh? I thought everybody in that room was a Bible student. Come to find out, I’m the one turning the overheads. I’m the Bible student. And all the others were the officers of the church that were there. It was a really enjoyable time there. And I learned a lot about…

Brother Bob Pellien: You did that for the whole time I was assigned there in San Gabriel Valley. You were, you became, you kind of adopted that duty to help make those slides and project them up on the screen while I was reading the verses. You were pretty awesome at that.

Brother Eric Waterman: And I really thought that this is the only way of God’s plan for me to be saved. It’s got to be the end of days, you know, I’ve already experienced three lifetimes before I met you. I mean, I had a really colorful life. It was quite a blessed life. And then “No, brother, you’ll have to wait another month.” And I’m like, “Oh, but what about the Holy Supper.” And so anyway, we waited another month, and then I got baptized, and then the last Holy Supper was up someplace in Washington. So brother, Bob, I remember that I was excited to get baptized, and then all my sins be forgiven me. So the one day I got baptized, and then the next day, I’m asking to be forgiven of my sins. And I remember the Minister saying, boy, this brother must have had life before. So I really thought that it was the end of days. And it really, I’m just amazed because you used to always say, “Just watch Brother Eric, just watch the Church and its growth.” And you used to say that to me all the time that “you ain’t seen nothing yet.” So when I came over to the Philippines in ‘91, I was like a fish out of water. I had no idea what to expect over here and I was able to meet the Executive Minister and shook his hand and we were able to go to the museum. And it was really a surreal moment, you know, and I walked into the museum and Sir, Brother Eraño Manalo was asking me why are you here, Brother? And I said, “to show the Administration my heart.” And it was really from that moment on, you know, and even on my ordination, Sir, Brother Eraño Manalo was saying, “you might be wondering why you’re here.” And I was like, “Yes, I’m the last one that I thought would be here.” And he said, direct to me, it felt to me every time you know, he talks it seems straight to the heart. Same with you. You know, that’s why I kept coming back to the worship service. You know, there were 200 people in that congregation. But every time you preached, it was like, man, pow, right between the eyes. And you know, the truth is something that we can’t deny. You either are in it, or you’re not in it. And I had to realize that really, God was having a purpose and plan.

Brother Bob Pellien: You know, Brother Eric, one of the most wonderful things in my life, is watching someone like yourself and watching yourself specifically, from the moment you said, I’m not here for any reason, I’m not coming. I’m just driving this and I was Wilfred Mercurio, I remember, and I’m just driving for him. And, you know, I’m not, I’m not here, I want, you know. From that moment, until the moment when you so dearly wanted to attend the holy supper and be baptized. And, you know, watching that transition, you know, watching you go from that person who was so insistent, I don’t need any baptism. I don’t need anything I don’t need. I’m not here, you know, and then you just, I don’t know what happened overnight while you slept or whatever because you came back the next day, and there you go, like, what’s this all about, you know, what’s going on here, kind of thing.

Brother Eric Waterman: Well, Brother Wilfred, he came down the next day, and I lived in a guard gated community with a you know, the intercom and camera. In those days, you know, you kind of didn’t let anyone into your neighborhood or your house. And he stood outside my house until I answered the door. And I’m like, oh geez! So he really missionized me and really tried his best.

Aliw Pablo: Listening to both Brother Bob and Brother Eric reflect on what they’ve gone through all these years, I couldn’t help but notice how grateful they are for one another—they have that kind of friendship that one could only hope for.

Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Eric, you know the memories that I have in the early days with you are memories that I will cherish forever. You know, I’m so thankful and so thankful that our friendship has continued to blossom over the years. And I’m so thankful that you and your son now are in this Holy Ministry, and have been helping the Church Administration do all the things that you’ve been doing. God bless you for that. And what a great blessing you’ve been to the Church.

Brother Eric Waterman: Brother Bob, I just like the thank you again. You know, you’ve been a role model to me. I remember so many times you taking under your wings, so many people that were complete strangers to you, you know there were those that we sought out that were lost, you bound up that which was broken.

Brother Bob Pellien: Like I said, you know, I don’t take any of those things to myself, you know, I’m thankful to God that if ever I had such kind of impact on anybody, it’s God who has been there and doing that. We’re just, we’re just a mouthpiece. We’re just an instrument that I and I know that’s what you teach to the ministerial students under your care nowadays, and congratulations on being trusted with that great duty by the Church Administration.

Brother Eric Waterman: Brother Bob, really, I appreciate everything that you’ve done for our life and for so many. And I know you’re just a humble guy, and you just will say that I’m just serving God but really, words can never express how much I love you, brother.

Brother Bob Pellien: Those are very kind words, Brother Eric. We love you, too. Give a hug to Sister Geralyn and Brother Cameron and Brother Tristan the next time that you see them. And I know you got a Worship Service you need to get to. So get to it. Get to it. And God bless you, Brother Eric. God bless you.

Aliw Pablo: Thank you brothers for letting us be part of your conversation. And it really is truly inspiring, brothers seeing the kind of love, friendship, and respect for your duties and for each other, and for those under your care. But, Brother Eric, before we go, we are just, with everything that you’ve mentioned, brother, with, you know, over 35 years of friendship with Brother Bob, what would you say Brother has been the biggest change or impact that Brother Bob has had on your life?

Brother Eric Waterman: He taught me what integrity means.

Brother Bob Pellien: That is such a nice thing to say, Brother Eric. God bless you. And you’ve shown your fair share of integrity and honor. And with all the Ministers in the Church doing that the world will learn it from true Ministers.

Aliw Pablo: And Brother Bob, your friendship has lasted decades. What would you say, Brother Bob is the importance of friendships like these? Why are these types of friendships important, especially when you’re in the ministry? And you’re able to share your ministerial journeys together, brother?

Brother Bob Pellien: Well, you know, I never had a son. And I would, I would see everyone that comes in like part of the family, you know. Brother Eric became part of our family. You know, you have the same birthday, of course with our daughter, Naomi, and they, every year she actually puts a big stuffed animal that you gave her on the chair at the table and always says that’s Brother Eric, you know. Sometimes, some people just are the mirror of what you hope to be and what if I had a son what I would hope my son to be, you know, grow and become someone with honor, with integrity, with strong faith, with a love of the Church Administration, you know, and Brother Eric, is that. How could you not be a friend to someone like that? You know, how could you not love someone like that, you know? If everyone knew that depth of Brother Eric’s love as well, they would consider him a friend too, if they had the chance to be. And I’m honored to be counted as a friend of Brother Eric.

Aliw Pablo: Special thanks to Brother Eric Waterman and Brother Bob Pellien for sharing the story of their friendship and a special bond of brotherhood that has withstood the test of time. Now is there someone that has made a huge change and impact in your life that you’d like to thank? We’d love to hear from you! Send us a dIrect message on our instagram account @makingchangespodcast, and we’d love to connect you with an old friend, classmate, teacher or anyone who you want to thank.

If you enjoyed what you heard today, be sure to subscribe to this podcast so you’ll always be up to date with our latest episodes. And while you’re at it, feel free to leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. As always, thanks for listening and may your change uplift you!

New Making Changes Episodes Coming Soon!

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We’re back for season 2 starting on May 26th! We can’t wait for you to listen in on a whole new set of conversations about change, gratitude, and the lessons that come when your life takes a full 180.

Reflecting on Lessons Learned (Season 1)

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An episode that looks back at all the conversations from this past season of what it’s like making changes in life and benefits of learning from others.

Show/Hide Transcript

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Hi, everyone, welcome to Episode 10 of the Making Changes podcast. Episode 10 already! I can’t believe it. Well, we just want to say thank you to all of you who have listened and have messaged us to say how much certain episodes have moved you and helped you go through a change in your life. So as we close out Season One of Making Changes, we wanted to do an episode that looks back at all the conversations we’ve had, and some life lessons that have been learned and shared. And it’s been great hearing from our listeners on our Making Changes Podcast, Instagram account. And here are some of the messages that we received from you on some changes you’re ready to make.

[Music starts]

Merck: A change I am ready to make in my life, just to become more physically active.

Mia: …is to only take on what I can handle. And I really, really want to do the best and everything that I set my mind to.

Morgan: I heard a saying on the radio the other day, and they quote, “When a flower doesn’t bloom, you fix the environment around it. Best change you can hope for can only come from God. However a change in the scenery and perspective can replenish your hope.”

Brainard: One thing that I want to change is finding the balance in my everyday schedule.

Kath: …less overthinking, work less, and pray to God.

Also, more planning and sticking to it with discipline and not insisting on my devotional prayers.

Michelle: In our society, we tend to shame people a lot. And I don’t want to do that anymore.

[Music ends]

Aliw Garcia Pablo: It seems at the time of quarantine has really helped people to step back and look at parts of their lives that need changing and improving, especially when it comes to relationships. And speaking of relationships, we’re going to do something a little different in this episode. My co-host today is Martin Zerrudo who’s going to tell us about the exciting new season for Heart & Soul, another very popular INC Media podcast.

Now, Heart & Soul is a podcast about real conversations with people around the world about love and relationships guided by the words of God. So I thought it would be kind of neat for us to reflect back on Season One of Making Changes while talking about what we have to look forward to for the new season of Heart & Soul. So join me in welcoming Martin Zerrudo. Hey, Martin.

Martin Zerrudo: Hey, Aliw. Man, thank you so much for having me. First of all, congratulations on the amazing Season One of Making Changes. Really amazing.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Thank you!

Martin Zerrudo: Oh, you’re very welcome. No, thank you. It’s refreshing content for all of us who have yet to kind of look at life through that kind of lens or perspective or filter. So it’s, it’s really interesting, every single episode and you know, since we’re on the topic of Making Changes, and quarantine and pandemic…

Aliw Garcia Pablo: No, I was going to say, well, here in California, where we’re from, you know, things are kind of opening, have opened up actually. And we’re kind of slowly moving back to normalcy if that’s what we want to call it, new normal, but I know they’re in Toronto, where you’re at, you know, you guys are still pretty much in quarantine, aren’t you?

Martin Zerrudo: Yeah, we’re not making any changes at all. We’re staying exactly in the same place.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: No changes, huh?

Martin Zerrudo: No changes, no change, no color changes, no zone changes, or stage changes. We’re just, we’re just staying at home changing our clothes, I guess what we’re doing. So I mean, I think hopefully, we’ll get there in some shape or form of normalcy. But in terms of those changes, what would you say to yourself in the craziness of this past year and a half or so, what has been the biggest change for you?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You know, when quarantine started, right? Last year, I think, I mean, there are so many statistics that show that people really got to spend time doing things they wouldn’t normally have time to do. So I think for me, one of the biggest changes is obviously number one, I’m spending more time with my family, talking to my kids more, my husband more and you know, thank God, we still really like each other. And, I think the biggest change is just also making the conscious effort to actually go for a walk every day. And that’s actually when I really got into podcasts was during quarantine because going out for going out on a walk with a dog and just having more time for self-improvement things whether it be really making the time to work out, making the time to journal and praying more, quarantine has really forced us to stop and think about things that we normally didn’t have time to think about.

Martin Zerrudo: For sure.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: I know you guys are still in quarantine mode. But what has been the biggest change for you this past year, you think? I mean, you’re still a newlywed, you know…

Martin Zerrudo: I am. We’re still in year two.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Year two. A newlywed in quarantine. What was that like?

Martin Zerrudo: So we got married in 2019 in October and then a year and a half of pandemic. So within this pandemic, I got married. Me and my wife–we started off in my bedroom on a twin bed in a townhouse with like, seven people, so super cramped. And then we moved twice in the pandemic. And then and yeah, so it’s been a lot of changes.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: A lot of changes

Martin Zerrudo: A lot of changes, but you know, what I think I’ve realized is–the love has changed. I think the love between family members: you’re around them more often, because you’re at home, the way that you communicate, and the way that you live your individual lives in the same space has affected the way that you interact so much. But the love changes because you kind of grow in understanding, and definitely in patience. Whether it’s me and my wife, getting to know each other in this new stage as a married couple, between me and my brothers, and my sister-in-law, me and my parents because we all lived in one space at one point. Yes, so the love changes. But I think in a positive way because it kind of forces you to explore areas of your relationship with your parents and your siblings and your family and your friends that you never would have had this pandemic now forced us in these unique living situations or restrictions or methods of communication.

Like I never thought there would be so much value just looking at my friends like looking at you, in this video call even though it’s just digital. That means something now to so many people because we haven’t been able to see each other because he can’t fly, he can’t travel, he can’t go out of your home or your city. So yeah, the love has changed. But I think it only enhances, and kind of makes you, just realize how special the physical time face to face time and the ability to spend time with people, how much that really matters.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: I think when you say the love has changed, the love has made us definitely more grateful for the people that we still do have in our lives. For both of us, we’re blessed that both sets of our parents are still alive and with us. And so I think, you know, during the pandemic, my parents are both retired and they live three blocks away from me with my sister. And so, you know, they really couldn’t leave their home for a long time. And, you know, there was such a protectiveness that we then take on when it comes to our elderly loved ones, right. And so I think overall, the loss of life has made so many people just change in perspective and gratitude and appreciation, and making time to actually to think about that, you know, and for us in our family prayers, we often say that, “may we never take for granted any of Your blessings. Whether it be the small blessings or big blessings…” because there’s really no small blessing…

Martin Zerrudo: For sure.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: …since tomorrow is never promised.

Martin Zerrudo: And a great way to kind of appreciate and never take for granted that kind of blessing. It’s just being able to talk about it.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes.

Martin Zerrudo: Talk about what it’s somebody who maybe has never heard of those blessings that you’ve gone through or that you’ve received. And so when it comes to the Making Changes podcasts and those kinds of conversations, and the blessings that your guests discussed, what would you say or do you have a favorite conversation or episode about those kinds of perspectives and blessings?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Gosh, after every episode, we always say, “That’s my favorite episode.”

Martin Zerrudo: That’s the best one.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: That’s the best one, right? And I think that’s what’s been so great. The blessing of this podcast is we, in one season, tackled, kind of some really, really depressing types of subjects, whether it be grief, death, chronic illness, homeschooling your kids as teacher moms, our most recent one is moving away from home and college. I think there’s not really so much that they’re really depressing, but rather, topics, or conversations, that not a lot of people are having because they’re hard, because they’re sad.

Martin Zerrudo: Right.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So I think every single one is a favorite episode simply because it’s a conversation that we need to have. Maybe some people may not want to listen to it right now because it’s too heavy. But when that time in their life comes, they’re going to have to face grief. We hope they remember Oh, wait a minute, making changes did an episode on that. Let me take a listen. You know, and it’ll still be there and they’ll still be relevant. But talking about relevancy. I think our most recent episode about, you know, being strong Christians while away in college, I think for me, was a favorite one because I’ve got two college kids here at home. They’re not moving away from home. But they’re at home. And I really, and they listened to–one of them listened to it. And I also think it’s because of just where I am in my stage in life, where I have a lot of friends who are right now facing the empty nest phase, right? So I just really feel like that episode is a favorite, because it’s going to help so many people.

Martin Zerrudo: You know for sure, there are so many different methods of saying goodbye in different ways in which you’ve had to say goodbye, especially in this last year and a half. But particularly with that episode, where you’re saying goodbye to your kids because they’re transitioning to another stage in their life. What are some of the fears that you have, as a mom knowing that eventually, they’re going to want to have to leave the nest and venture off and start that next space?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You know, as a parent, there are so many different fears, depending on the stage of the child, right? When they’re walking, you’re fearful that they’re going to grab something and put it in their mouth that they shouldn’t have. And then they’re going to choke and all that stuff. And then now they’re walking, now they’re out in the world, in school, and you’re worried like, Is someone going to bully them, and then they’re in high school, and you’re worried about peer pressure. So at every stage as a parent, there are always worries. So I think right now with where they are in their lives, I’ve told them this directly, too is that sometimes the fear is, they end up being a person that we don’t even recognize anymore. Like, wow, you’ve changed so much, I don’t know who you are, is this the child we raised? Are they going to remember everything we’ve tried to teach them spiritually–when it comes to faith, when it comes to values when it comes to dealing with people when it comes to dealing with problems because this generation of kids, they’ve grown up with, everything they could ever need and want in life, right? Versus, for example, the way my husband and I grew up, right, we, you know, they always say, with every generation, the parents always want to give their kids more than they ever had.

Martin Zerrudo: Yes

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So I think the fear is for them to take for granted what they have. And not take time to look at the blessings and only focus on what they don’t have. Because for me, if you have gratitude, you have gratitude to God, your gratitude to those you love. That is more powerful than whatever struggle or suffering you’re going through. Because gratitude is what will ground you back, pull you back, rein you in, to really step back and have the perspective of like, man, I am still blessed.

Martin Zerrudo: Definitely.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: I may be going through A, B, C, and D. But look at the overall picture. I am so blessed. So one of my biggest fears is my kids won’t have grit in life, and easily break.

Martin Zerrudo: Right.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And not be able to know how to handle struggles and failures. So that’s it. Strength, right? I always pray for strength for them. And to make the right decisions and to always choose wisely.

Martin Zerrudo: Definitely. So many lessons: a lesson of gratitude, a lesson of strength. Were there any other lessons? Or was there one lesson when it came to your guests? Or a conversation that you had on Making Changes that really helped you? Or did those conversations really support those lessons of gratitude and of strength and resilience?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: You know, I think with every episode, even though our guests didn’t necessarily all know each other, right, but if you listen to their stories, their stories are so similar in the sense where yes, I was a nurse in the middle of a pandemic. Yes, it was hard. I was worried. You know, my kid got sick. I was worried. Am I gonna get the virus and that… but I just made sure I prayed before my shift, after my shift, and then I just had that confidence. Or another episode, you know, yes, I was diagnosed with cancer as a 10-year-old. Yes, it was hard. I went through this, this, and this, but I prayed, and I knew that God was with me. So now I am much braver than I thought it was going to be.

So resilience, I think resilience and bravery and courage, the number one, comes in different shapes or forms. It can come with a nine-year-old child diagnosed with cancer, or it can come with a seasoned nurse, dealing with a very busy Hospital in New York who, just inundated with COVID cases. But at the end of the day, no matter what the person’s life context is, it’s the faith of that person, how it grows and develops, but that every challenge that our guests went through, even though it was hard at first, in the end, they were thankful for it.

Martin Zerrudo: Nice. And you know, it’s funny, there are so many more stories of thankfulness out there. And so when you look back at this First Season of Making Changes, what would you say you’ve been most thankful for? And what do you have to look forward to for the next season?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Honestly, I’m just thankful that people were willing to sit down and talk. And some of them we met for the first time on the podcast. I was just thankful that people were willing to share their stories. And that I’m thankful that we have this platform. We have this platform to talk about things that are hard conversations that maybe people aren’t having within their small circles. But if it means that they can listen to this podcast and get the advice that they can get, while they quietly struggle, then I feel like we’ve, this podcast has done its job and really strengthened people’s faith, strengthened their resilience and their courage and faith, faith in God overall.

[Music starts]

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Martin, what was your favorite episode of Making Changes? Oh oh, now we’re going to test you.

[Music ends]

Martin Zerrudo: Man, well, you know, I have to say, the most recent one only because it just makes me recall a time. So I went to college, two times, for two completely different majors. None of which I’m really doing. But that’s okay. That’s a different story. It’s a different podcast episode. But I remember I didn’t really have a set group of friends, I didn’t really always hang out with only you know, hey, you want to hang out after class. I was just there for the course.

Take the class, take the test, whatever, and then leave. Take the exam and then leave, hand in the assignment, then leave, go to the lecture and then leave. On the last day of college, they like, “Hey, we’re all graduating from this program now. Do you all want to go to the restaurant and eat?” So I was like, “Okay, cool. I’ll go.” I don’t really hang out with those people. But I went, I’m like, “Okay, now we’re not going to see these guys again, probably. So let’s just, let’s all eat.” And I’m just, we’re all having fun. And I’m like, “Okay, I’ll loosen up”, and I’m making some jokes, and they’re laughing. And they turned to me, and they’re like, “Martin, how come you didn’t hang out with us more during these last four years?” And for a second, I was like, “you know what I should have, right? Because this is so much fun.”

But then it made me realize sitting there in that restaurant like my goal was never to create a new or find a new community of friends–is nothing wrong with making those connections. There’s nothing wrong with relying on each other to get through the challenges of post-secondary life, whether in university, a community, a trade, school, whatever. It’s hard, and it’s obvious you’re in the trenches together for four years.

So you’re seeing these people going through the same thing. So you rely on one another. But for me, I already had that. I had that with my brothers and sisters at Church, I had that with my loved ones and my friends in the Church Of Christ. I had that. So I guess I didn’t really need to do that. And then the second time I went to university, I did even less, I barely talked to anybody else. And I just wanted to go to class and then I left. When I listened to that episode, where one person went to Korea and another was moving, so they can go to the University of San Francisco, you can really tell from one of the guests, the one who’s about to go to university, she’s like, wide-eyed and super excited and ready to go. And the other one, who has already gone through that experience, is much wiser than it was like, yeah, this is what you see around you. There’s a drinking culture in Korea, and everybody’s going out all the time. And I totally relate to her because that was never, that doesn’t really it’s not really your objective. It’s like one of those things that they sell you like, hey, college is gonna be the best years of your life, you’re gonna have new experiences.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: No. That’s a really great point. You know, as members of the Church, I think that’s one of the most beautiful things about being part of our INC family is that we already have that, right? We have that in our different local congregations. But I’m glad you bring that up. Because that was one of our questions in the podcast, how crucial is it? To have friends in the Church while you’re in college? You know, because I think that’s one of the things that if you don’t have that if you don’t find that community in the Church with like-minded Christians, young Christian friends, you’re gonna go look, go look for it elsewhere. Lucky for you and me that we have that because we didn’t need the college experience to provide that sense of community for us.

Martin Zerrudo: Absolutely. And I just want to point out there will never be a moment for anybody in this world who ends up going to college or university where you will be 100% prepared.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes. Absolutely. I mean, not directly related to college, but you know, your whole thing about looking for answers and being confused in life, whether it be in college or just life in general. You know, our very first episode of Knowing the True God with Ahmad and Naima was, I’m so glad we started the season with that episode because it was really profound, you’re really talking about seekers, right? People who are siblings who didn’t know the other one was seeking, right, but just… everyone is going through something and they think listening to this is definitely one of my favorite episodes, listening to these two siblings who absolutely adore each other, absolutely respect each other. And just that act of love right, that Ahmad shared with his sister that totally completely changed her life.

That was really profound to kind of sit back and listen to them, talk about it, and reflect and recount what that time of their life was like. And I think with this show, that we do a lot of reflecting. And a lot of reflecting on things that some people may not have actually spent time thinking about. You know, even the episode with Brother Donald Pinnock and his son, Brother Daniel, they’re at two opposite ends of the world. But when they were talking for the podcast, it’s like they were right there and just picking up from where they left off, because they’ve already had such a strong bond. But you know, it’s again, it’s those conversations that if people aren’t having them, we hope they do. We hope they have them. We hope they have that conversation with their dad or their mom because they listened to the sweet and honest and really loving conversation that Brother Donald and Brother Daniel had so there are so many. And then like with Ahmad and Naima hopefully someone actually messaged us and said, “Hey, because of that podcast, I reached out to my brother, who I haven’t talked to…”

Martin Zerrudo: No way.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes. “I reached out to my brother, who I haven’t talked to in a while.” So, wow, okay, I didn’t think that was going to be one of the impacts or the results of it, but praise God, right? That it was able to have that kind of impact on people.

Marin Zerrudo: So what do you have coming up for next season?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Well, we don’t have all the episodes lined up yet. But we are hoping to explore topics like conversations for women in the workforce. How do you assert yourself as a competent and confident woman but still, as a God-fearing servant of God? Like, how do you do that in the workplace? So we’re hoping to get a mentor and a mentee since this is really what the show is about. And also, we’re hoping to explore conversations and how people have dealt with racism in any, or any kind of prejudice that people may be experiencing, and still, be an honorable Christian through it all. And honestly, I don’t know how many seasons we’ll have with the show. But there are endless hard conversations that are waiting to be told and heard. And, God willing, it can help so many more people out there. So you know, that’s us for Making Changes. But you know, as we close out our season one, you’re starting your new season of Heart & Soul. And I know you have so many fans, Heart & Soul hardcore fans that are just waiting to hear what new conversations they’re going to be listening to. So what’s up for this new season of Heart & Soul?

Martin Zerrudo: Speaking of reflecting, the show has been around for over five years. And over five years now. And shout out to Lois Paula, who’s a co-host of mine, for the podcast. And you know, five years later, we’re still talking about love.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: That topic will never go out of style.

Martin Zerrudo: Never. Because somebody falls in love and gets their heart broken every single day. You know, and for members of the Church Of Christ, especially in 2021, speaking of love changing, oh man, talk about how much it’s changed. The method of communicating how we feel, communicating how we don’t feel, how that relates to romantic feelings to feelings between friends, between somebody who has a different belief or faith in you. And so in terms of our next season, some of the topics that we cover to Dear Future Husband, Dear Future Wife, was an amazing social media post that we put on our INC Media News Instagram account where we just asked, “Hey, leave a message to your future husband or future wife, you may, he may find someone they may be able to look back on this one day when you find that special person. And what I hear through the grapevine is that there were a couple of couples that were formed from that Dear Future Husband, Dear Future Wife post.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes, I did hear that as well.

Martin Zerrudo: So we turned an episode around or we created an episode around that conversation, of the kind of person you hope to find and the role your faith and trust in God plays in finding, the one who God intends for you to be with.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Do you think from the conversations that you’ve had all these seasons of Heart & Soul do you think that movies and media in general, do you think it’s really kind of tainted, the people’s view on the realities of love and relationships?

Martin Zerrudo: Yes, I think it’s a great question because when you look at RomComs, is it art imitating life? Or is it life imitating art? And that I guess, that permeates our relationships because should I act this way cause I saw it in this movie, so I guess I have to be that so that when you start seeing that in movies and TV shows, then, of course, members of the Church Of Christ watch that and say, “Hey, is that normal? Hey, is that okay?”

Aliw Garcia Pablo: But do you think that going back to that question of change, in just perspective in social media, I think more so now, it’s not even so much the influence of movies, but just social media in general, people’s friends. Do you find that those who are not in relationships and because of social media, they see their other friends who are in relationships or who are getting engaged, and they’re not, do you think that in itself actually has a stronger impact on people more than your usual Hollywood movies?

Martin Zerrudo: For sure. Because there’s this concept of FOMO (fear of missing out), right? You watch a movie once in a while, great, you might feel like “Man, I wish I was the leading person in that movie. I wish I was going through what they’re going through.” But then we’re now in 2021, you go through your phone, and it’s like, what, six hours a day where you’re seeing what everybody else is doing that you feel like either you should be doing or you’re missing out on fear of missing out. And a lot of that when we’re talking about relationships definitely falls under FOMO of wanting to be with someone as well, because all my other friends are with people.

And so one of our episodes, Is God Leading You Into a Relationship. And one of the topics or sorry, that topic really addresses the process in which you’re finding out with this person is whether or not you guys are a good fit. Are you forcing it? Or is God showing you red flags? Because it’s funny when we talk about the things that we pray for, and things kind of just falling into place. God didn’t force you into a good position or good part in your life, he didn’t force you into a great job, he didn’t force you into a good place in your life. So why would he force you into a relationship? And yet we see that happening all the time, where two people are like, “Oh, I don’t know if this is gonna work out but let’s just keep going. Let’s just figure it out as we go along.” But why force it when every other blessing in your life that came from God wasn’t forced?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: And I think that’s what I love about Heart & Soul is because there are questions that provoke thoughts that really make you go, “Hmmn.” That really makes you stop and think and reassess right? Reassess your actions, reassess your feelings. Reassess your relationship in a way that is still of Christian value and Christian in nature versus listening to what the world is telling you to do.

Martin Zerrudo: Definitely, definitely. And you know, these conversations, they happen already, in a bus stop, they happen in a coffee shop, maybe not so much right now during the pandemic, but they happen. And there’s so much insight that you can gain from that.

Now, imagine if you had that conversation and there was a minister there to provide biblical verses to contextualize God’s teachings and the things that you’re going through every single day. And, you know, five years and running, that’s what Heart & Soul has been able to do is really take those day-to-day conversations you’re already having, and add that spiritual guidance to steer us in the right direction. Because I’m never going to say even though I’m the host and the producer that I have answers. I’m never going to say that my advice, or that I’m ever going to give advice to our listeners, it’s really just a conversation. And the guidance at the end really is the star of the show is the words of God.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes. And I think that’s what’s so great about it is that at the end of every episode is that you do have that spiritual guidance, and it feels like the Minister is right there next to you, I mean, they’re in your ear. But yeah, it has, it’s such a, you know, you’ve provided such an intimate setting when it comes to the listeners and to where they really feel like they are the subject, that the advice being given on the show is specifically for them, into them. So, kudos to the Heart & Soul team.

Martin Zerrudo: And I just want to say thank you, thank you so much. But you know what, at the end of the day, kudos to the Church Administration, really, I mean, for all the different ways and platforms that this could have been addressed. They’ve allowed us to use podcasts, so that whoever may be listening to this episode right now, wherever you may be around the world, hopefully, in whatever stage you are in life, that this content is helpful to you, that’s inspiring to you.

And I just want to say whether it’s Heart & Soul or Making Changes, the intent of the content that we created in INC Media Services is the same and that our content is just a method of providing inspiration so that they can have a stronger and healthier relationship with God in His teachings. So whether it’s Heart & Soul, Making Changes, The Solution, I’m very thankful that it’s able to exist in the platform and in the world that is INC Media Services and CEBSI because that’s why we wake up in the morning and produce the content that we produce, is to be of service to people like, whoever may be listening.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: We are just, we are so, so blessed. And we are indebted really, you’re right. We’re so indebted to the Church Administration for allowing us to have all these shows and all these platforms, and to be able to reach out to brethren all around the world, in whatever stage they’re going through, whatever season they’re going through in life. Well, thank you so much, Martin Zerrudo for taking the time…

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: to have a heart and soul conversation with me because I feel like we just had one. No, but you know, you and I, we go way back, and you are a true friend. And we work together, day in and day out. And we really do wake up in the morning feeling so grateful that we get to create such life-changing content for people and be able to share it, right? There’s just nothing more fulfilling than that.

Martin Zerrudo: Absolutely. I do have one last question.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Yes.

Martin Zerrudo: If I may?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Go for it.

Martin Zerrudo: If we were on a Making Changes episode right now, which we are I guess, and I’m younger, Aliw Pablo who used to work at that newsroom going through that footage with her hand manually, going through scripts manually, what would you say to her? What would you say has been the biggest change from that Aliw Pablo in that newsroom to the one recording a podcast right now at home?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Wow. That is a good question because…You know, it’s funny because I went into TV news because I wanted to tell stories. Yes, I was this, really young, wide-eyed, and bushy-tailed 19-year-old working newsroom. And then I found out oh, my gosh, this is so… my stomach would turn you know, every time I go into the newsroom because it’s a really stressful place.

People aren’t very nice during live shows. But, there was one thing that someone told me back then when I was an intern, and I was bulking tapes, bulking tapes is where you’re just erasing tapes. That’s when they were using tapes for the photographers. And he said, “You know, if you want to make it in this business, don’t ever be afraid to ask questions, because someone will always be more willing to help someone who is going to ask a question versus someone who thinks they know everything.” And that piece of advice, to be honest with you, really carried me through working in TV news, working in the advertising world, before working for the Church full time. Because to this day, at age 40, I’m going to be 48 years old, right? I am constantly wanting to learn. I am constantly trying to learn new things. I mean, you know this, I’m constantly sending you stuff like “Hey, check this out. Listen to this podcast I heard, read this article I just read.”

But there’s something about just wanting to constantly learn and always be relevant and always be of service. And mind you that young girl in the TV newsroom, I didn’t know, I was going to end up working for INC Media Services. I didn’t know that that’s what God had planned for me. But I feel like that, you know God, allowing me to meet that person. And putting that piece of advice in my mind has carried me through all these decades of being, I consider myself a creative servant, and being able to really create content for the sake of serving and for the sake of helping others.

And so I would have never guessed in a million years that this is where I would be. But also I would have never guessed in a million years just how amazing God would be and he would answer all my prayers and make all my dreams come true. And my only prayer and my only dream at the time as a young person was to be able to tell stories. I first started working for the Church and I think I told you this, my only dream at the time was I want to be able to hopefully one day tell stories of people, of brethren all over the world. And who knew the internet was going to come around. And to this day, this year, this month is my 22nd year of working for the Church Of Christ full-time. And we’re still telling stories.

[Music starts]

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Thank you so much, Martin. You are truly a joy to work with and a friend I love to chat with. So thanks for making the time and good luck. Good luck with the new season of Heart & Soul. I will definitely be listening.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: So everyone, be sure to tune in in the new season of Heart & Soul which you can listen to the INC Media app or Google or Apple podcasts and even though we are taking a break from the Making Changes podcast, be sure to follow us on our Instagram account, Making Changes podcast for updates on when season two will begin. See you next season and thanks for listening and may your change uplift you

[Music ends]

On Being A Strong Christian While in College

Podcast: Play in new window

Meet Marielle and Chanelle. Marielle is an incoming college freshman and is getting advice from Chanelle, who graduated college last year and actually moved away overseas to study abroad. They’re having the tough conversation on how to keep your faith while away in college with new found freedom and surrounded by so much temptations. They’ll talk about how college can actually be a time to be even closer to God.

Show/Hide Transcript

Making Changes: On Being a Strong Christian in College

Marielle Magno: Why I liked University of San Francisco is because I could still easily go home. It’s not that long of a commute. But I’m also far enough to be pretty independent, but still be close to home.

Chanelle Amoguis: That must be exciting. What are your feelings right now? You know, thinking about dorming and moving?

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Meet Marielle and Chanelle. Marielle is an incoming college freshman, sitting down and talking to Chanelle who graduated college last year.

Marielle: So like, while you were in Korea, um, how, how did you like to stay true to your faith and not be easily tempted and influenced, while dorming and being away from home?

Chanelle: That’s a good question.

Aliw: Studies show that there’s a growing trend that reveals that some college freshmen aren’t just preparing to say goodbye to their families. They’re preparing to say goodbye to their faith as well. With newfound freedom and away from the eyes of their parents and temptations everywhere. What can one do to keep their Christian faith strong and thriving while away in college?

Chanelle: Setting boundaries is so important. And you have to constantly tell yourself like, this is a line and this is a line that I will not cross. And they say “will not” instead of “cannot” because if you say “cannot” it’s like you’re restricting yourself. But if you say “will not” that puts you in control of your decision…

Aliw: So, today we’re having that tough conversation. Is it possible to remain as a true and faithful Christian while away in college? A phase in life that the world says is a time for exploration and self discovery? Or could college actually be a time that can bring a person even closer to God? I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo, and you’re listening to Making Changes.

[Show Open]

Aliw: Marielle was so excited to be asked to be part of this podcast. She starts her freshman year at the University of San Francisco in the Fall. She’ll be getting advice from Chanelle from Hawaii, who moved 1000s of miles away from her family, and studied in South Korea. We’ll hear about real life experiences and real world advice from one Christian to another and learn tips on how to navigate around the changes that come during this part in young adulthood but always with God by their side. Let’s listen in.

[Music ends.]

Marielle: Hi, Chanelle. Thank you so much for being here to talk to me today.

Chanelle: Hi, Marielle. I’m so happy to talk to you today. I’m excited.

Marielle: Yay, me too. I’m so excited as well. So nice to meet you.

Chanelle: How are you?

Marielle: I’m good. How are you?

Chanelle: I’m doing great. It’s a bit hot over here, so I’m sweating a little bit in nervousness and excitement. But I heard you graduated recently. Congratulations!

Marielle: Thank you. I graduated. Thankfully, it was an in person graduation. So I gotta have it in person. A lot of students, so 800 students to graduate class. And you got too?

Chanelle: I did, I did. It’s like during the pandemic back in 2020. So we didn’t have an in person graduation, unfortunately, because you know, the pandemic was pretty new. So everybody was just like on lockdown. I graduated from the University of Hawaii at Manoa. Yeah, I know. It’s a pretty big school. And I also heard that you’ll be moving away as well. Where are you going?

Marielle: Yeah, I’m going to move to the University of San Francisco, which is just like around 40 minutes away, but I’ll be dorming there.

Chanelle: You’ll be dorming there. So this is your first time being away from your family.

Marielle: Yeah, it is. Did you move away for school too?

Chanelle: I did. I, yeah. When we look back on it. I just remember all the good memories and the fun times I had, but it was back in 2017. I studied abroad in South Korea for a semester.

Marielle: And what did you study?

Chanelle: Um, basically all things: Korean language, Korean history and Korean culture. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, and I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity come to me by a friend. He told me that there’s a scholarship that hardly anyone applied to and if I did it, there’s a high chance I’d get it. I just had to turn in paperwork, pass the interviews, and yeah, they pretty much paid for everything. You know, you have the whole experience.

Marielle: That’s so cool. That’s awesome.

Chanelle: And Kpop is a great motivator, you know, and learning new languages, which is what helped me for my major in Korean.

Marielle: Yeah. So what was it like dorming especially in a different country too?

Chanelle: For me dorming in a different country. It was very exciting, very terrifying. But the terrifying didn’t come until later, you know. When I first heard it, you know, all that excitement washes away any types of fears, stresses that I had because of this, like the idea of studying abroad into a country that you’ve grown up wanting to travel to– to visit, ever since you’re a kid, like, in my case, especially, it’s just like, no, this is I’m all in. No problems here at all. So yeah, I was very happy. And my parents were excited for me as well.

Marielle: So like, while you were in Korea, how did you like, stay true to your faith and not be easily tempted and influenced while dorming and being away from home?

Chanelle: Oh, that’s a good question. For me, I really surrounded myself with friends who shared the same goals, and respected my values and boundaries. And one of the biggest culture shocks that I’ve seen firsthand was the drinking culture in Korea. Like it’s so common that you see it in Korean dramas, pop culture, even among the most popular k idols, they promote it in their advertisements, like it’s become normalized. And it hits you when I, as a student, of course, my friends would at the time, my classmates would ask me to go out and, and hang out and drink at the bars with them. Like they do it every day. Not saying that all Koreans drink every single day. But you know, it’s hard when there’s influences left and right, even more so there. And it’s not just Korea. It’s everywhere around the world.

Marielle: Yeah, exactly.

Chanelle: Yeah, it’s easy to get caught up and distracted with influences around you. But you, keeping that awareness of your boundaries… Setting boundaries is so important. And you have to constantly tell yourself, like, this is a line. And this is a line that I will not cross and I say “will not” instead of “cannot” because if you say “cannot,” it’s like you’re restricting yourself, but if you say “will not” that puts you in control of your decision that this is something you’re not going to do. And don’t be afraid to tell people “no.” Don’t be embarrassed if your values are different from others, because sometimes, you know, you think that they’re going to react weirdly or they’re going to look at you differently. Like, no, really, like if you just say no, they’ll be like, okay, because sometimes it’s just as simple as that. And if they ask why it’s, you can just tell them and they’ll be like, okay, cool, I understand it’s fine. You know, and if they keep pushing, maybe these are the types of people that you shouldn’t be around. So you know what’s right from wrong. And don’t put yourself in a position where your boundaries are compromised.

And honestly, I’m just really grateful for the friends and family I’ve made in the local of Yongsan and Ansan. Shout out to them. They were always there to keep me busy in my duties in the Children‘s Worship Service or even in INC Radio and attending all of the activities there in Korea, it was so amazing. It really kept me away from those types of influences and reminded me of the foundation of my faith.

Marielle: Wow, I really, Oh, wow, that’s really good advice what sticks out to me the most is “to not be afraid to say “no.” Because yeah, I’m like, I really value friendships, especially even in high school where I already know everyone. But now I’m going into college where I won’t know anyone. Even in my high school. Oh, no one there is going to USF. So I’m going to be surrounded by new faces. And I would, of course, love to, like make some friends. And I’m not gonna lie, sometimes I do end up just so for them to stay my friend, I’ll end up doing certain things like, okay, sure, I’ll do this with you. But it isn’t anything bad. But I would just really want to stay friends with people. So I just really like the advice you say about making sure you have your own boundaries for yourself, and knowing who your right friends are for yourself. Who has a good influence on you.

Chanelle: I completely understand Marielle because I was like you at that point, too, you know, like, I was passive. I didn’t know how to stand my ground. Yeah, but you know, once you make that first step, everything else will be easier.

Marielle: Okay. Yeah. Cause also I’ve been praying to just like to make sure that…this to God that this is going to be a positive experience for me. And, like, I can tell you right now from the college applications to right now in my USF endeavors, like God has literally been there for me and his timing with all of this college things is so perfect. Cause even from the SATs. I hate taking tests. So even in my devotional prayers, at one point, I was like, “God, please just let the SATs disappear, so I won’t have to take them anymore.” And the next day, they cancelled because of the pandemic. So I was like, yeah, I mean, so I didn’t have to take the SAT. And then skip to when I’m starting to apply for colleges. And I decided to apply to seven colleges. And I got rejected from five of them. And waitlisted, actually to USF. And I actually got accepted to the one that I least wanted to go to. So, you know, I was definitely a bit sad, and I was praying to God, like, “please just let this be a positive thing for me and for it all to work out for me.” And then I decided to go to the other college that I got accepted to, and wait out the USF waitlist. And actually, at one point, I stopped praying about USF because I got a bit let down and I was just really sad. And I told my dad that and my dad said, “No, keep praying about USF even if it’s just waitlisted, you still have a chance.” So I was like, Okay, sure. So I put USF back into my Devotional Prayers. And the next week, I got a text from USF saying that their space is open in their school, and then I got accepted. So I literally got accepted into the school that I most wanted to get into. And then the school that I least wanted to get into. But at the end of the day, like I got accepted in the school that I wanted to, and I was like, like this, it’s just so shocking.

Chanelle: You know, in those types of situations, those are really like lessons that came from God, where you kind of teach you like to be patient or any types of things. So I’m so happy for you. And I’m so excited for you. So what are you going to end up studying? And how far are you going to be away from home again?

Marielle: So I’m going to be studying Nursing, which, and I was surprised too, because I know that their nursing program is really competitive. So God really blessed me with that as well. And I’ll be like, 40 minutes away from home. And also why I liked the University of San Francisco is because I could still easily go home. It’s not that long of a commute. But I’m also far enough to be pretty independent, but still be close to home.

Chanelle: I see, that must be exciting. What are your feelings right now? You know, thinking about dorming and moving?

Marielle: Oh, well. Funny you asked that because like this morning, I got an email. Oh, 20% off like all mattresses. And, like the beddings. I mean, right now I’m pretty excited for it. There are moments where I’m either going out with a friend, or just kind of out by myself. And I kind of like, you know, think about my family. And just like okay, even my sister was like, oh, when you were out with your friend, Daddy said that this is what it’s gonna be like when you’re out in college. And I’m just like, Oh, yeah. Did you get homesick in Korea a bit?

Chanelle: Um, you know what, because I was so excited. It actually didn’t hit me until later. When I think towards the end of my scholarship program. When everybody’s leaving classes or finishing and like I had to move out of my dorms and into an airbnb to stay until my flight was out. And you know, when I experienced that loneliness that’s when everything started hitting me and you know, falling on me. Because, moving is stressful to begin with, you know. Yeah, so at that time, like, as soon as I got settled in the airbnb that I was going to stay at, I just, I cried it out, honestly. And I cried a lot. And I can easily laugh about it now. But when I look back and think about how much better I felt, I realized that allowing yourself to accept those emotions, and feel it’s a great way to exercise healthy coping mechanisms like your mind, and may want to focus on healing and getting rid of that pain. But the physical act of crying also allows for your body to catch up to those emotions and express that pain because you know, when you have heavy feelings of sadness, or any deep negative feelings, it affects you physically. And I know that there’s an ongoing stigma that expressing your emotions means that you’re soft, or it’s something to feel shameful about. But it’s important to accept those emotions and just let it out. Otherwise, you might turn to other negative vices or influences that would make things worse, you know, and we’re taught as Christians to pray and give all of your worries unto God, every single thing that you’re stressed, you’re worried about you like, from happy to bad, like you tell you tell it to God. And if you can be real to God with everything you’re going through, why not also be real with yourself and face what’s in front of you instead of avoiding it? And that’s what I had to learn and deal with while I was dorming away from my family as a student.

Marielle: So I also wanted to ask, while you were in college, what did you major in?

Chanelle: So early in high school, I already decided that I wanted to do Journalism. And I’ve been doing Journalism all through my community college years up until University, but at the last minute, I changed to Korean.

Marielle: So how did you manage to balance studies, extracurriculars, and church duties and activities all at the same time?

Chanelle: I’m going to tell you, it’s not easy.

Marielle: So you’ve been asking that question. Oh, I feel the stress already.

Chanelle: Yes, right. Well, as someone who has gone through it, for me, it was understanding what my priorities were, and knowing the full scope of each of my responsibilities, so I can gauge what I need in order to accomplish all of my tasks. I’m going to admit, I’m not like the best multitasker but I always try my best. And I used to be so strict with the schedule that I wrote in my planner to help me keep organized and I organized every single day down to the minute like I would finish this class at this time, I would go to work at this time, all of that I would have, you know, devotional prayer at this time. But, you know, no matter how well you plan, unfortunately, life doesn’t work that way. And how I reacted was so bad, I used to malfunction or freak out when a class gets moved up and an appointment gets rescheduled, or when two activities conflict with each other. But what I did is like, once I reminded myself, that it’s not my fault, and these things are out of my control, it opened my mind for a new solution to tackle the issue at hand. And you know, that’s also when sacrifice comes in. And sacrifice, it’s never easy. That’s why it’s called sacrifice. But you have to prepare your heart for times when you’re gonna have to make a sacrifice and choose between two things. And that’s also why I have my daily prayers. And in my prayers, I always make sure to ask God for the knowledge to prioritize what’s important. And I also pray for the strength I need to make those sacrifices because it’s gonna take a lot of strength, I’m telling you to make those difficult decisions. And you know what, you never know, God will open up a plan C that will make everything fall into place.

Marielle: And so even though it was hard to juggle it all with duties in school, why did you decide to try and do it all?

Chanelle: You know, I always felt that it was worth it in the end. You know, for one, it kept me away from doing bad things. Two, school benefited me for my career, my future and giving me the education I needed and performing my duties gave me the spiritual encouragement and upliftment that I needed to continue on in my current life, like the teachings that you hear in the worship service, or in any of the activities, they’re there to guide you on how life is how life will be like. And I, even though it’s so hard it was. So it was such a struggle, just knowing that God always had my back. He was always there answering my prayers, and granting me blessings, whether I knew it or not. He was always there to make sure that I was okay in whatever decision I made, as long as I stayed close to Him. And I remained in constant communication with God, because I know that, you know, as we’re taught in the Worship Services, God will always guide you to a bright path. And that is something I want. You know, like, of course, who doesn’t want bright paths? Of course, you know, I have to make the sacrifices. So there are more benefits to doing so.

Marielle: Sophomore year of high school, I started to do devotional prayers. And now like, I can’t sleep unless I do my. Yeah. And all I know is that like, at the end of the day, like, every single workout when God is like, on my side, and whenever God is with me, everything will work out. Like my friend, he’ll tell me, well, everything works out for you. Luck is on your side. And I was nodding in my head. I was like, it’s God. Like, this is all God. Like, every single thing that’s happened, and every single thing that I’m thankful for, it’s all because of God. And that’s why I always just thank you in my prayers, like, oh, thank you like, because it all worked out for me. Of course, like, there were times in High School where I just didn’t know what my future was going to be like. And I was definitely scared. But eventually everything worked out and everything will work out in the future, too. How crucial do you think it is to have lots of Church friends, while in college to help you stay strong in your faith?

Chanelle: Oh, I think it’s completely important, it’s most important to a lot of Church friends, because one, who wants to be lonely? It’s okay, if you want to be alone, but loneliness is different. And you need those friends to be there to support you through every up and down that you have, especially when there are times when it’s difficult for you, yourself to see the positive and things. And having those Church friends, they are the ones who share the same values and understand your boundaries, you all are on the same path in life. And at the same time, you can also trust them to call you out whenever something bad happens, or when there’s something that you shouldn’t be doing. You know, we all need those friends to tell us like, what kind of friends would we be if we allow our friend to do something that would harm them? You know, and we can always trust that our Church friends would be the one to take care of us and make sure we’re not gonna do anything that’s going to harm us physically, emotionally, especially spiritually.

Marielle: Yeah, I totally agree with everything you’ve said here, as Binhis, as teenagers in the Church, we have a deeper understanding of each other. How did you deal with learning philosophies or other beliefs that went against our Christian beliefs? Like, for example, like philosophy classes that may question God’s existence? Yeah. And literature also questions God’s existence as well?

Chanelle: Yeah, that’s a really good question. And funnily enough, I did take a philosophy class, and I did take a world religions class. Well, I really just took it with a grain of salt. Because in the end, you know, you can learn about all these interesting religions, where they came from, and philosophies or, you know, kind of way of life. I understood where my faith was, I knew, like at least, you know, through the Bible studies that we’ve taken before we even got baptized, that already sets the foundation and basis of who God is and where God came from. And I think what a lot of people don’t realize, whenever it comes to having questions about your faith, or about the Bible, especially in my world religions class, you know, like, I was so curious about how other religions came to this conclusion or how, you know, why they believe that God is their God, you know, and the one thing we take for granted as members of the Church of Christ is asking. Just ask the Minister, that’s all it is. Don’t come to conclusions on your own because if you ask a Minister, these are people who have studied the Bible for years and have gotten certified on that. Who would know better, would be a better source of knowledge than the Ministers that we have? They’re always there ready to answer all your questions. And we actually encourage it. And, you know, I was so grateful that, you know, one of my overseeing CFO Ministers was my source of asking, asking questions, and he would always answer them, and he was always patient with me. So that really helped me to understand and strengthen my faith all the more.

Marielle: Wow. Yeah. In my literature classes, and the books that we read, too. There’s, like my literature teacher, he was like an atheist. And he was pretty vocal to the class about it. And everyone else was pretty vocal about their beliefs, too. And when we would read certain articles about it, and like religious studies, like my eyes were reading, but my mind was like, I know the truth.

Chanelle: Yes, you have that knowledge?

Marielle: Yes, exactly. Thank you so much Chanelle, for your time. And for your amazing and helpful advice about college.

Chanelle: No problem. It’s truly a pleasure to have met you. And to talk about these things. I think it’s really important to bring up, especially for incoming college students like you.

Marielle: Yeah, your advice really, really helped me. And I’m going to think about it all the time. And when I start school, I’ll remember this, and I’ll listen back to this podcast and hear my weird voice. And I’m really happy and appreciative that I got to do this with you.

Chanelle: You know what, if anything, I’ll always be here. Feel free to message me on my socials. If you need help, advice, talk about Kpop or learn phrases. I am here for you. I appreciate you.

Marielle: Thank you so much.

Chanelle: Thank you.

Aliw: Hi, guys!

Chanelle and Marielle: Hello. Hi

Aliw: I’m listening and I can tell Marielle, how much you really, I know you guys just met for this podcast. But when I first asked you if you wanted to be part of this podcast, you were so excited and eager. How important is it, especially for incoming freshmen, to get this kind of insight before starting this new chapter in your life?

Marielle: Oh, well, I really wanted to have more guidance, and more articulate and clear advice and stories to hear about this too. So I could actually hear what you experienced as well. Like, this actually comforted me. And it really made me feel secure as a member who will be exposed to a lot of worldly things.

Aliw: And for you Chanelle, what piece of advice do you wish someone told you about your freshman year that could have helped you that you now share with, you know, students like Marielle that’s about to start college?

Chanelle Aoguis: I wish someone told me to keep your mind open, but keep your heart guarded. It’s so easy to get carried away with the excitement of starting out as a new place that you might lose a sense of yourself in the midst of exams and meeting new people. But also be on guard from people who probably focus on too much fun or have different priorities from you. Just protect your heart at all times, protect your faith, because those values are what makes you shine the brightest.

Aliw: That’s a good one.

Marielle: That’s a really good one.

Chanelle: I wish that someone told me to be prepared for change. That phrase itself is, you can easily take for granted. But Had I known all the changes I would have gone through in the start of my whole college career, it would have helped a lot because you know, as people were constantly learning and growing and developing as their own individuals, you know. Our opinions that we have had before may change now and our outside surroundings may change. We may also lose a few friends along the way. But the one thing that remains constant is yourself. So you should love yourself throughout this whole process of changes. And as we’re preparing for change, we always should make sure to leave room for God’s will. That is what has helped me the most, that is what has helped me with my perspective and how I should carry on through life with every trial that I’ve gone through. And you know, as long as I place my trust in Him and I talk to Him with my heart in every single prayer I know that I’ll never truly be alone.

Aliw: Speaking of change since our podcast is called Making Changes. What do you think is the biggest change that you went through in your four years of college meaning the freshmen, Chanelle?

Chanelle: Oh, my goodness.

Aliw: And then the college graduate, Chanelle. Within those years, what do you think was the biggest change in you that either you had to make or just naturally happened?

Chanelle: The biggest change that I’ve dealt with, from you know, my freshman self, to my graduate self is my relationship with God. As a child–like growing up, you know, I’ve always understood where my faith was, and who God is and what role He played in my life. But in my college years, I’ve felt loneliness, deep, deep sadness, and feelings of being miserable, that I had no one to turn to. And that really forced me to, pushed me to talk to God at all times, and in leaning towards God. And in being patient with the lessons that he has taught me. It really has helped me with their perspectives on how I should view the world, how I should be the future. And you know how I am supposed to be at my very best self.

Aliw: Would you say that college is a time in someone’s life where it can either bring you closer to God in your case, or bring you further away from God? Do you think college is that pivotal time in someone’s life? They can do either or, and so it’s really about the choice of making or making that choice to consciously draw closer to God. But it has to be a conscious choice to do it?

Chanelle: Yes, I agree. College is one of those pivotal moments in your life, only because of the amount of temptation that is there. Like it’s so concentrated within your college years that you’re always gonna have to fight, not to say that there won’t be other pivotal moments in your life, but college is the one you should definitely look out for if you do decide to go to college.

Aliw: Well, I learned a lot. But I just want to say thank you guys. And I think that you both . We hope that this conversation is going to help a lot of college students listening out there who may be quietly struggling, right, and we hope that this little conversation will help them. Will help everybody strengthen their faith in some way. So thank you guys for your time. And good luck, Marielle, in college in the fall, and Chanelle, we’re so happy that you’re part of our INC Media family. And God has definitely carved your path for you and even brought you closer to Him. So thank you guys.

Chanelle: Thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity.

[Music starts]

Aliw: Thanks to Chanelle and Marielle who were kind enough to open their hearts to us for this episode. And as always, if you found value in what you heard today, share it with someone starting college in the fall. And if you’d like to see the faces behind the voices, check out our Instagram account @MakingChangespodcast. Thanks for listening and may your change uplift you.

[Music ends]

On Facing Childhood Cancer

Podcast: Play in new window

Meet Myla and Sophia, two young ladies who were once strangers but were brought together by faith. 17-year-old Myla from the San Francisco Bay Area was diagnosed with a rare form of leukemia at the age of 10 and has survived having a bone marrow transplant, heart failure and recently, a kidney transplant. When 12-year-old Sophia from New York was diagnosed in 2018 with a brain tumor, her mom had heard about Myla, and reached out to Myla’s mom for support after seeing her story on incmedia.org. Today, with God’s help, both girls are cancer free and are living their best lives. We’ll hear their stories of survival and the changes they made in their perspectives while battling cancer and they share some insight on how they stayed positive during such a difficult period in their childhood.

Show/Hide Transcript

On Facing Childhood Cancer

Sophia Espiritu: So I wanted to ask you, what do you think is the funniest thing that you did at the hospital that kept you busy and let time pass by?

Myla Cunanan: When I was in the ICU, I was always making slime. So I opened up a slime shop where nurses and doctors would stop by and get slime from me.

Aliw Garcia Pablo: Meet Sophia and Myla, perhaps the two most amazing young ladies I’ve had the privilege of knowing.

Sophia: Well, there is a lot of boring time spent in the hospital. I did have a lot of hobbies at the time, I used those adult coloring books. And I would make lions with vibrant manes.

Aliw: They are childhood cancer survivors, philanthropists, and just overall inspiring young people. But on second thought, I don’t think the word inspiring will do justice in describing them.

Myla: So, we did have a band aid drive, where I donated different kinds of band aids to the hospital. I also had a book drive, where I collected a lot of books and donated it to the school in the hospital.

Sophia: Well, in 2018, the same year I got diagnosed, I felt like for my 10th birthday, I want to give back to the community. So then I was trying to think of something unique, like, okay, a lot of people give out candies, and they do give out quite a few things at the cancer center. So I wanted to not repeat that same thing.

Aliw: Whatever it is you’re going through in life right now and maybe you need a pick-me- up. Make the time to get to know these two faithful young souls and I guarantee you, they will give you the kind of change in perspective that we all need to be reminded of during those tough days. And, oh, these girls, they’ve had their share of tough days.

[Show Open]

I’m Aliw, and you’re listening to Making Changes. Today’s episode is a pretty special one. Because it’s not often that we get to meet people like Myla and Sophia. I’ve known Myla for many years now, and Sophia, I’ve yet to meet in person. They’ve never met each other in person either. But they’ve led such parallel lives that when Sophia’s mom heard of Myla’s story, after Myla was in remission from her cancer, Sophia had just been diagnosed. And so their families have been a support system for one another.

Today, you won’t just meet two young ladies, but they’ll give us insight on how to help a loved one or friend who may be going through a sudden life changing ordeal. They’re going to give us tips on what to say, what not to say, and what love language to use during such a difficult test in someone’s life. You will surely laugh and cry. So get your tissues ready. Let’s listen in.

[Music ends]

Sophia: Hi, Ate Myla, I’m so glad to be talking with you today. Do you remember the time that we first met? I remember when my mom told me about you and we watched your story.

Myla: Yeah, I remember the first time we FaceTimed. I felt very happy that you reached out to us. And I was glad that I was able to connect with you and just was able to help you.

Sophia: When we did, I just felt glad to connect with you. And glad that I could talk to another family that had such a similar experience in the hospital. I’m so glad we’re both happy and. healthy. And we both beat cancer and congratulations on the kidney transplant that you got.

Myla: Thank you!

Sophia: So altogether, how long do you think you spent in the hospital?

Myla: Well, I’ve been in and out of the hospital since 2014, until I had my kidney transplant, but probably about two to three years altogether.

Sophia: So how do you think cancer changed you?

Myla: How did cancer change me? It made me more positive. Also, it made me grateful for a lot of things, like you. And most of all, I trust more in God now. And yeah.

Sophia: Yeah, I think cancer definitely changed me. I feel like I don’t think it made me braver. This is a hot take, but I think it just showed me how brave I actually am. Not to flex or anything. And I feel like after that, I just realized how grateful I am for everything. Like, the day before I was supposed to start chemo, I just remember like, “Wait, I’m not gonna be able to go to a buffet again” because you know, like, there are a lot of germs at buffets. And I mean, everyone at my church, they always had celebrations at buffets. So just after that, I definitely wen to more buffets. So I, it definitely changed my perspective on the world, but for the better. Well, I’m glad we got to talking. And hopefully after this pandemic, I can come over to California, and just give you a big hug.

Myla: Me too. I hope we can see each other in person soon.

Aliw: Hi, guys. Hi, Myla. Hi, Sophia. How are you?

Myla and Sophia: I’m good. I’m good.

Aliw: And as I’m listening to you guys, I I feel like I’m listening to two very wise, young women. You don’t even speak like your age, because you’ve been through, you know, you’ve been through more than most adults, you know, two, three times your age would have gone through. But you know, I just wanted to ask Myla you were 10 right? When you were diagnosed with Sophia, you were 9- 10 or so? You’re nine. Okay.

So do you think your friends treated you guys any differently? Once you got sick? You know, because you guys weren’t able to hang out with your friends as much as you used to before especially with having to be careful, having the need to be careful, right with germs and things like that, that you guys mentioned. How was it like? How did your friends treat you differently if they did while you were sick?

Sophia: For me, I feel like I just remember that first day after I was in the hospital. And I was diagnosed and I came into the classroom. And everyone shouted my name like “You’re back!” And actually someone at my hospital comes to the school and can talk to your class or your grade about this thing. Like they were able to find a way for us to connect. And I feel like my friends–they were able to understand they were third graders but they were able to understand enough. I’m glad they still treated me basically the same except for that little being more careful. Other than that, we just still had fun together.

Aliw: What about you Myla? I know you were in the hospital much longer in and out but how did your friend stay connected with you?

Myla: My friends and classmates were definitely very supportive and understanding with my cancer. Some of them will actually come to the hospital and visit me which is really nice.

Aliw: Oh, nice.

Myla: Yeah, some would send cards or gifts and my class, my whole class, my fourth grade class, and my teacher, they actually took time–part of their class, just shopping for hats, different types of hats for me.

Aliw: Awww, that’s so sweet.

Myla: Because they knew that I was gonna lose hair, of course. So they chose different styles to see which one I would like.

Aliw: Oh, that’s really sweet. What would you, you know, if there were other kids who maybe they have a friend, or maybe they have someone close to them who’s battling an illness, whether it be cancer or anything else–What advice would you give to them on what they should say? Is there a right or wrong thing to say to someone?

Sophia: There’s nothing really wrong to say, because most people that have illnesses, and you’re saying something to them, you know, they know that you’re just trying to help them. But I do feel like there are some things that can be improved upon, like…

Aliw: Such as? I like how you said that can be improved upon, such as?

Sophia: You can talk to them about what’s happening, but you don’t have to smother them, you don’t have to be like, you don’t have to be their parent. In retrospect, you don’t have to come over like, oh, how are you? Oh, Here, take this, take this, take this. How…do you need me to call the nurse or something? Are you okay? You can ask them occasionally, like, “Oh, hey, how have you been?” Just like you normally would, they might talk about the illness or not. But don’t just be cool about it. Just be relaxed about it. Don’t be so upfront about the illness because again, they’re still just a, they’re still a regular person. And I don’t have any way to end that.

Aliw: Okay, just just be yourself basically.

Myla: Like, Sophia, you know, just be yourself. And just talk to them like you regularly would. Because, you know, just because we’re sick, it doesn’t mean we’re different. So just treat them regularly, and try to be positive.

Sophia: A lot of people tried to be very serious, like, especially the doctors and the nurses, they come in like, “Hey, how are you?” with those pity eyes, as we talked about the pity look, and they’re going to be very serious. Like, it’s almost as if they’re afraid to be happy. But then, I feel like on the other hand, you really need a good mix of those things. Because since that happens, it feels like it makes them feel like they’re sick. Really. It makes them think, “Oh, I’m sick. I’m not supposed to be happy and be laughing.” So if you can walk in to your friend’s hospital bed, say, and don’t walk into the hospital bed, walk into the hospital room.

Aliw: Wow, that’s deep. Don’t walk into the hospital bed. Walk into the hospital room. Okay, you’re gonna have to clarify that a little bit.

Sophia: No, that’s just don’t walk into bed.

Aliw: Oh, you mean like literally don’t want a bed.

Sophia: Don’t walk into the hospital bed, walk into the room.

Aliw: I thought you were being symbolical or something. Okay, got it. Got it.

Sophia: If you’re able to laugh with them. If you’re able to make jokes then it’s like, “Oh yeah” It’s like, “we’re friends.” We’re able to communicate. And that helps them think like, “Oh, yeah” I’m, as I said before, “I’m still a regular person.” I’m not labeled as that sick person. I’m labeled as a person, just a person.

Aliw: So we’ve done other stories of both of you before. Myla, we’ve done Stories of Faith on you and Sophia, you’ve done a Faith Speaks. And in your stories, you’ve both said that you never felt alone. You know, during your ordeal during your treatments when you were hospitalized. Can you tell us? How come you never felt alone? Like what was it that was going on inside you that you knew that you never felt alone? Who wants to go first?

Sophia: That feeling when God is with you, it’s just a feeling deep down in your soul. Like a 1000 teddy bears, the big ones from the carnival, the big ones that you need a lot of points for, but just 1000 of those wrapped around you. And I feel like that can be put in many different forms.

Like, sometimes it’s just by yourself when you’re having some of some thoughts like you’re thinking, and then you, all of a sudden you feel this, you get this wave of warmth and care. Sometimes, it’s when it’s with other members of the Church. Whenever I’d go into the worship service, when I had cancer. Everyone was checking up on me. And they were like, “Oh, hey, are you okay? Are you okay?” And I’d be talking to them. Like, they just care for me in so many different ways, actually, like, especially actually the anointing of oil, which I’d get. I think every week, the minister would have an anointing of oil with me. And again, just this feeling like these people are caring with me, what is caring for me, God is helping me and caring for me through this tough time.

Aliw: What about you, Myla? What were your prayers like?

Myla: I’d ask for strength and for courage to help me overcome my sickness and my pain and to be healed. So that and so that I have strength to serve God.

Sophia: My prayers, just guidance, really guidance. Because before this, I was just like this lunatic who would be running around. It’s a much different feeling once I was diagnosed, and it’s like, okay, now we have like, next the next level of life, and now we need to just get past this part. Like, let’s just keep going.

Aliw: When you were diagnosed when you guys found, you know, heard the word cancer, and you’re you’re just a kid, you know. Myla you were 10, Sophia you were 9. Did you ever think, like, “God, I’m just a kid. I’m only 10 and I’m only nine. And I’ve got this big adult, you know illness?” Um, did you ever ask “Why me God because I’m just a kid. I’m just a little girl.” That ever cross your mind?

Sophia: Barely. Maybe if it did just a second or just a minute, until I realized that I was worshipping the true God. So this wasn’t for bad reasons. If anything, it was just a test, or just something physical that happened. It was just going to be a test. And I’m not the only one. Like, I know that Ate Myla went through this. So then I realized that it’s all going to be okay, we’re just gonna have to see how the road is going to be until we reach our destination, healed. You know?

Aliw: Destination healed? How about you, Myla? Did that thought ever cross your mind?

Myla: Not really, maybe for like a brief moment. But I just thought maybe this is God’s will. This is God’s purpose for me. And, and He just wants…and it’s just a trial in our life that He wants us to overcome.

Aliw: And when you, Sophia, when you met Myla, or when you saw Myla’s story, and you were going through your ordeal, and she had already, you know, had passed her treatments and everything. What did you think when you saw her look at her? She’s doing fine. What kind of hope did that give you?

Sophia: It made me think that again, I’m not the only one. And if I do get past all of this, I also won’t be the only one. But that’s because of God’s help. And again, seeing Ate Myla and all these other kids even. And I would hear, overhear them. I’m in the lobby, I overhear them. Like, “Okay, we’ll see you next year.” And it’s like, “Whoa, that kid, he’s already done. Like, he’s not going to be here for another year?” And just seeing a bunch of people and hearing all these stories about like, “Oh, all of these guys got past that. So why shouldn’t I and especially, I’m a servant of God.”

Aliw: What advice would you have for someone your age, that may be going through something tough?

Myla: To always be prayerful. Pray for strength and courage and always trust in God and what He could do for you.

Aliw: Sophia?

Sophia: You know, when the movies, when it just pauses, it just freezes. Like, don’t just stay within like that one room and keep thinking thoughts to yourself, or you’re gonna go crazy. Get other people, talk to other people, even the nurses if you have to. Just go talk to the nurses and your doctors. I feel like since we had this experience that happened in our life, I want to become a doctor when I grow up. So I feel like that empathy will help with those patient encounters, like being diagnosed with cancer, it’s like, “Oh, you’ll be fine. I went through the same thing.”

Aliw: So Sophia said she wants to be a doctor because of her experience to help others. What about you Myla? Have you thought about what you want to be when you grow up?

Myla: I always wanted to do something that had to do with kids. So I thought about it back then, like before I was sick I always wanted to be a teacher. But after my experience, I want to be a child’s life specialist. They’re kind of like a mix between a social worker and the school teacher. I guess I mean, that’s how I could describe it. They stopped by and they will give you like, if you need… if you’re bored though, like give you stuff to do. If you need someone just like to stay with you in the room. They would stay with you. Or sometimes like when I would have like a big surgery coming up. They would call the child life specialist to explain things and just like to help you be calm about it.

Aliw: Now, in a way, if you never had cancer, do you think that you guys would have thought about these things? As are your future and what you wanted?

Myla: Not at all.

Sophia: No, I don’t think any…Well, maybe the doctor part, but not anything close to, like where I am now, none of the experience or the feelings or if I didn’t have the cancer, I wouldn’t be here right now on this podcast for the cancer episode, right? And I wouldn’t get to meet you, Ate Myla. I wouldn’t be all over. I wouldn’t have been on Channel 4. That was a good day. I left early from school.

Aliw: Well, I just want to thank you both. You know, I’m so excited to see what kind of life you both are going to live as adults because as young people, you’ve already done so much. And you’ve impacted so many lives. And I’m really, really excited to see what else God has in store for the both of you.

If you’ve already gone this far, and the courage and the faith and the bravery that you have. I feel like after listening to you, both people will feel like they can tackle anything. They can overcome anything with God by their side just by listening to your stories. So thank you. And I wish you guys the best in this school year and finishing up the school year. And good luck with the rest of your high school Myla. And Sophia, good luck with the rest of middle school. I know that you guys always make the best, right? You guys have taught us to always make the best of any and every situation. So thank you. Take care you guys. Bye.

Myla: Thank you.

Sophia: Thank you.

[Music]

Aliw: Aren’t they great? Such wisdom and such young hearts. If you want to hear more from Sophia, you can watch her Faith Speaks episode as she talks about being brave. And you can learn more from Myla in previous Stories of Faith and Blessed Moments episodes all right here on INC media.org. Now if you want to see more of both their community service projects, check out INCGiving.org.

As always, if you found value in what you heard today, please share it with a friend and don’t forget to subscribe to the INC Media app, Apple or Google podcasts. And while you’re at it, maybe you can leave us a review. And if you want to see the faces behind the voices, check out our Instagram account Making Changes podcast. Thanks for listening and may your change uplift you.

[Music Ends]

On Being A Nurse During A Pandemic

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Meet Warren and RJ, both ICU nurses from the opposite sides of the country. Warren, who’s been a New York nurse for 20 years, talks with RJ from Los Angeles who became a nurse shortly before the COVID-19 pandemic began. Both men talk candidly about how being on the frontlines has changed them as nurses and as people, along with the frightening reality when the patient is a family member. They also share the one thing they both do regularly to help them cope with the tragedies they witness on a regular basis.

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On Being Nurses During A Pandemic

RJ Dela Cruz: I got into this field because I wanted to help. You know, I was an accountant before, and I really was looking for that part of myself to help someone in the time of need and..

Aliw Pablo: Meet RJ, a surgical ICU nurse from Los Angeles, who made a career change and found himself in a new field at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic.

RJ Dela Cruz: I feel like the nursing school, it prepared you for the boards, but you know, once you get out onto the field, I felt like I was a deer in headlights, my first few shifts.

Warren Sabino: Oh, trust me. Yeah, I’m surprised that I did become a Nurse.

Aliw Pablo: RJ talks with Warren, a cardiac ICU nurse in New York with 20 years of experience and shares some advice on how to get through tough days in the nursing field.

Warren Sabino: You know, I remember one of the older nurses who retired already, they used to tell us, “Don’t take any of these things home with you.” I pray multiple times before my shift, during my shift, and then after my shift. It’s just one of the ways that helps me cope.

[Show Open]

Aliw Pablo: Welcome to Making Changes, I’m your host, Aliw Garcia Pablo. On today’s episode, we’ll hear from RJ and Warren, two nurses from the opposite sides of the country. At the time of this recording, we were in the middle of the second surge of the pandemic here in California. They’ll talk about the challenges and changes this pandemic has brought to the lives of nurses but also the frightening reality of what happens when the patient is your child. We’ll be flies on the wall as we listen to what helps them cope, seeing the frailties of life each and every day, for the sake of helping others. Let’s listen in.

RJ Dela Cruz: Hey, Warren, it’s really nice to meet you. You know, they always say that no one knows what you’re going through when you’re a nurse, except for another nurse.

Warren Sabino: Well, it’s a pleasure to meet you and to talk to you RJ, as well. I know, being a nurse definitely is stressful, but also rewarding. But I’m glad to talk to a male nurse as well.

RJ Dela Cruz: I feel like they’re seeking out male nurses now. In my cohort, because I’ve only been a nurse for about a year and a half. So fairly new.

Warren Sabino: You’re a baby.

RJ Dela Cruz: I want to be as experienced as you one day. I wanted to ask you, Warren. So I was wondering how it is in New York right now? How is the state of the pandemic?

Warren Sabino: As you know, like when the pandemic hit, New York was one of the first cities that really got affected by it. And, you know, we were really suffering for those first few months. And at that time, we didn’t really know what to expect. So it was really kind of nerve wracking, you know, I never, in my 20 years of experience, ever experienced something as serious as this virus.

RJ Dela Cruz: Just looking in, in the beginning from California. I have to admit, I was kind of skeptical. I was thinking, what most people thought. Oh, it’s just a really bad case of the flu. And then, when you actually see your first COVID patient, it opens up your eyes, you know. You don’t understand the severity of it until you see it in person.

In the beginning, we changed my unit. I’m a surgical ICU nurse, and we changed our unit to a COVID unit. And we changed it for about maybe three, four months in the beginning. And then our cases went down. So we converted back to a surgical ICU. And then the second wave came. Did your years of experience as a nurse, did it prepare you at all for something like this?

Warren Sabino: Well, I mean, I think when it comes to this pandemic, I think no amount of experience can prepare you for something like this. You know, I’ve seen things and done things that I never thought I would do as a nurse. And you’re used to being in pressure, stress, high stress situations, as well, I’m also a cardiac ICU nurse. You know, your experience does prepare you for but because of how unique this situation is, how we have to gown up and take the necessary precautions to protect ourselves first.

RJ Dela Cruz: Yes.

Warren Sabino: You know, that was a change, like, when you’re an ICU nurse, a lot of time is very important. And, you know, especially when patients are not doing well, minutes, seconds are very valuable to have to stop and gown up and take that time away, and to take care of these patients who were really, really sick. I mean, it was, it was definitely a change and a different experience as a nurse. You know, our unit can only hold 20 patients, but when it was at the height of the pandemic, we were doubling people in rooms,

RJ Dela Cruz: Wow.

Warren Sabino: If you see this picture is unbelievable, because in the hallways, you see all these IV poles with multiple IV pumps flooding the hallways. We’re like the nurses are all over the place. You know, when you see how crazy and how busy… I mean, when I look at it now, now that it’s a little calm down here in New York, I just kept like, all of us are like, well, I can’t believe that we went down that whole thing.

RJ Dela Cruz: Yeah, I think we kind of did the same. Or we’d have the IV tubing and everything extensions. Outside of the room. We also had the vents outside of the room at one point, or they were extended outside. So that was new.

Warren Sabino: Wow.

RJ Dela Cruz: Yeah, so I don’t know. Like you said, now you look back at it. It’s like, how did we do that? Yeah, how do we manage that? But we did.

Warren Sabino: Well, it can be overwhelming. But you know, you go through it. But someone who’s just starting out with only a year and a half of experience. And I couldn’t even imagine how they must have been feeling or dealing with it. Because like you said in LA it’s one of the hardest hit right now. How are you handling things over there?

RJ Dela Cruz: You know, it’s been tough as a new nurse, but you have to realize what, or why you got into this field, you know. I got into this field, because I wanted to help. You know, I was an accountant before, and I felt like I wasn’t helping anyone. And I really was looking for that, that part of myself to help someone in the time of need. And I felt that this profession really does that, especially now because this pandemic, you can’t, your family can’t even be in the room with you. You have iPads, you have FaceTime, you have, actually like zoom meetings with family members who can’t be in the hospital and you’re like, the patient’s family. And it’s been pretty tough. But to that point, I feel that I’m able to stay afloat by our faith and our family. I guess in a way it was good that I’m new, cause I don’t know what normal is as a nurse yet. So, it’s like throwing someone that doesn’t know any better.

Warren Sabino: That’s a great way of looking at things actually. I never thought of it that way. I mean, like, being new to get that experience.

RJ Dela Cruz: It was pretty hard. In the beginning starting as a fresh nurse in the ICU. Actually, the cases in California are slowing down. And now that I’m gaining patients that are non-COVID, it’s kind of weird, surreal, because, like you said, the putting on the protective equipment and the mask and the gowns, and now that I walk into a patient’s room, that’s not a COVID patient without all that stuff…

Warren Sabino: Right.

RJ Dela Cruz: I feel strange. I feel like am I protected? Am I doing this right?

Warren Sabino: I totally agree. I mean, even after this whole pandemic is done, we’re all talking about it at work, it kind of changed. I can’t imagine taking care of patients without a mask and a shield. It might not be COVID, in the future who knows what other, I mean, I don’t want to think that way but, you know, it’ll change the way we take care of patients.

RJ Dela Cruz: Yes.

Warren Sabino: Who knows what else will be there?

RJ Dela Cruz: Yeah, I don’t know about you but before COVID hit, I hated wearing a mask in a patient’s room. Even in the hospital, I hated wearing a mask. But now I feel like I need to.

Warren Sabino: Totally. I mean, sometimes I would do things not patient care, but things in a room without gloves. Now, I can’t even imagine, like not putting on gloves the moment you walk in a room now.

RJ Dela Cruz: Yeah.

Warren Sabino: Going back actually, if you don’t mind me asking if we can just for a second.

RJ Dela Cruz: Yeah.

Warren Sabino: You said earlier that you were an accountant before?

RJ Dela Cruz: Yes.

Warren Sabino: Then you went into nursing. And so how did that happen? How did you become a nurse from being an accountant? I know, you said, you wanted to help people. But how did it become nursing?

RJ Dela Cruz: You know, I’ve always had this interest in the medical field. But I was stubborn about… Let’s face it, Warren, there’s a stereotype about Filipinos being nurses. And I was so stubborn about that. I was like, I don’t want to fall into that stereotype. I resisted it for so long. But I was stuck, I felt stuck in Accounting. So jobs were being sent overseas and I have a family. You know, honestly, it’s been a blessing, because probably a lot of people during this pandemic have been laid off. And I feel like I probably would have been laid off. If I didn’t become a nurse at this time. Yeah, it’s a blessing.

Warren Sabino: I agree. More than ever. At this time, it’s a good career choice, RJ.

RJ Dela Cruz: There’s no turning back now, Warren.

Warren Sabino: I know.

RJ Dela Cruz: Honestly, we’re both in ICU and for me, there was one point where I would come into work, and there would be a patient who would just pass away every shift. And that was tough. I was taking care of this patient for at least three weeks. And that was my patient for every shift. Because the family requested me. And in the end, he passed. That really affected me. And it’s so hard to think about this now, because the family was so grateful. They even wrote me a nice letter and saying, thank you for just being there when we couldn’t because of all that COVID stuff.

Warren Sabino: I don’t know, I don’t think you can ever get used to someone dying on your shift. You know, there are those situations where you kind of know there’s not much you can do anymore for patients. You know, I remember one of the older nurses who retired already. They used to tell us, “Don’t take any of these things home with you.” Like any of these, like when it comes to… don’t let it weigh you down. If you can save someone’s life, you’re trained to do that. Just trust in what you’ve learned. And what I do is I always just pray every…I pray multiple times before my shift, during my shift, and then after my shift. It’s just one of the ways that helps me cope with kind of experiencing all that and not letting it affect me to the point where it affects who I am and what I do.

RJ Dela Cruz: You see these COVID patients, a lot of them personally, the ones that we see, they don’t have anything really wrong with them, except for COVID. COVID is real. It doesn’t discriminate against anyone. We get patients who are young, and they’re in their early 20s, you know?

Warren Sabino: Actually, in the beginning, my son actually was affected.

RJ Dela Cruz: Wow!

Warren Sabino: My youngest son, yeah, he was 12 at the time. He came down with a fever. And of course, at that time it’s alarming because that’s one of the biggest symptoms that you have to look out for. So when it happened, I was just like, we were kind of hoping it was just something—nothing too serious. It was just like, maybe just, like a 24 hour thing, it’d go away. And then my wife called me in the middle of my shift, I went to work. And she’s like, “He has a 104 fever.” And I was like, “What?” You know, obviously I was kind of nervous about it. Because we’re in the middle of [a] pandemic. So, everyone in the hospital has COVID and no one wanted to spread it. So they told you know, don’t go if you can handle the symptoms at home. And he was my son, I can tell he was getting like when he sleeps, his breathing was labored. And he was just so tired. And he couldn’t even walk to the bathroom. Or if he did, he’d be so tired. If so we finally brought him in. And then the doctor, they took some blood and they couldn’t get a blood pressure on him.

RJ Dela Cruz: Wow.

Warren Sabino: They were like, yeah, they were like, he doesn’t look good. I think we’re gonna send him to the ER. So he would stare me blank in the face. And he was like, “Dad, I can’t see.” And I was like,”What?” I was like, yeah, so then I was like, “Okay, sit down.” We had to [lay] him down. We had to call an ambulance to get him to the hospital, just to the hospital. But all I could do in my mind was pray.

I was praying so hard. When we got to the ER, in the Emergency Room and then all of a sudden they asked to, they wanted to get his weight. So they stood him up. They couldn’t get a blood pressure at all. And then they were like, you know what, “Sit back down.” And then they finally got one that was like 60 over 40, 30. And then all of a sudden, they called like a mini code. So then all of these doctors and all these nurses start rushing in. And of course, I’m from the ICU, of course I know what’s going on.

RJ Dela Cruz: Yeah.

Warren Sabino: And I know what they’re about to do. But then, you know, my son just looked at me and I just looked at him, I just I go, “you’re fine.” I was like, “they’re just gonna give you some medicine, you’ll be fine.” I just kept looking at all like maybe like five or six people were putting on IVs, giving him fluid, giving him… putting monitors on him. And then when it really hit me, they started bringing the intubation tray in and central line placement kits, all those things that you do when you get into an emergency and I was just like, “Please God.” Like, “please.” But he was a trooper, he would just look at me, I just [looked] at him. He never lost consciousness. He was just kind of, I guess, a little nervous. But I would just say, “Oh, you’re fine. No, you’ll be fine. No worries.” Finally, they took us up to the pediatric ICU, I guess during that time, they seemed like kids that were having, not COVID, but I guess they were labeling it the Kawasaki disease?

RJ Dela Cruz: Oh, yeah.

Warren Sabino: Cause it was like presenting like that. But I think now they named it, what is it? The Multi-system Inflammatory Syndrome. But after a few hours, he made a quick turnaround. During that whole time the only thing other than that we can think of to do was to pray like I, you know, we would call some of our ministers. And I [called] every minister I can call.

RJ Dela Cruz: Yeah.

Warren Sabino: Because when it comes to us, that’s the real solution, the real solution, the real treatment for us. So, I had like multiple prayers and only after a few hours, he recovered quickly. Yeah, all his medicine, they were able to go down. Like, I think we were probably in the ICU a total of two days.

RJ Dela Cruz: Wow.

Warren Sabino: And our doctor and his cardiologist are all like, “wow, like, it seems like he never even had it.” Like, he’s great. He’s doing well, and there’s no restrictions. Like, he’s doing well. Thank God, that was probably the scariest thing that ever happened to me in my life—it’s because of that. You know, it’s just different. It’s so different when it’s your own family. As nurses we know how to take care of these patients, we know what to do. But when it’s your own family, it’s just a different experience. Like, it’s unbelievable.

RJ Dela Cruz: When it hits close to home like that, you feel a little helpless and you just got to trust in your faith in God and just keep praying.

Warren Sabino: Totally. I mean, if it’s just, you know, God has always been good. And, I really believe that He was there for him and for our family, because even with, like, when it comes to myself, I mean, I’ve been exposed. I mean, not exposed but dealing with COVID patients so closely, though, these almost a year, not lucky, but just blessed to be…

RJ Dela Cruz: Exactly.

Warren Sabino: I don’t have to worry about that.

RJ Dela Cruz: You know, I pray all the time, before every shift, before I leave the house, that God is with me. Asking for guidance, and especially to help me when I feel stressed out or any anxiety. As a new nurse, I definitely get anxiety just thinking about going into work. You know, what am I going to see today? What’s going to… what kind of patient is going to be thrown at me or what kind of situation is gonna happen at work that I don’t know how to, or that I’ve never experienced before. But, all I do is pray and I know that there’s nothing that’s going to happen, that if He’s with me that I can’t handle.

RJ Dela Cruz: How do you think that this whole pandemic has changed you as a nurse, and a person in general?

Warren Sabino: You know, just being more aware. I mean, it made this happen so quickly, and out of nowhere, and it just shows how delicate life is. Being a member [of the Church Of Christ] really puts us at an advantage. When it comes to dealing with what’s happening in the world and like during this time you’re even closer to God.

RJ Dela Cruz: It just made me appreciate everything more. You know, it just appreciate your family, appreciate being able to have, like you mentioned more in the faith that we have. You kind of take these things in life for granted that this pandemic has pretty much brought to the forefront of your mind like, “Wow, I’ve been so blessed.” I’m going to try not to take any of that for granted.

Warren Sabino: And no matter what situation– if it’s the pandemic, if it’s something life threatening, if it’s anything that happens, it’s just knowing you’re a member and knowing God is on your side, you can take on anything.

RJ Dela Cruz: So, hey, Warren, I just want to say thanks, and I really appreciate you taking your time to talk to me and as a new nurse, just having someone to talk to about all this, it’s really been a blessing. So thank you so much, Warren.

Warren Sabino: I was such a…I really had a good time talking to you. You know, I wish you all the best in your career and your family life. Hopefully, when this thing gets figured out, if I ever go to California, I’ll come see you guys.

RJ Dela Cruz: Definitely, I’m 15 minutes away from Disneyland, Warren. So come on over.

Warren Sabino: Nice. Will do will do.

[Music]

Aliw Pablo: Hey, Warren, and RJ! Gosh, listening to you guys, you know, all of these images come to mind when you guys are talking about your real life situation in your hospitals or just being with the patients that you’ve had. We can only imagine how challenging your every day must be. Now, RJ talking to Warren, what do you think was your biggest takeaway from your conversation today with him?

RJ Dela Cruz: You know, even for Warren, this pandemic has been new. But although he has 20 years of experience, the experience helps, but Warren, you still rely on your faith and your family to get through this.

Aliw Pablo: And Warren, what would be your advice to anyone who is studying to be a nurse, especially now that the world has completely changed, you know, so much from this pandemic? Any pieces of advice you’d want to give that may be different from when you started as a nurse 20 years ago?

Warren Sabino: My advice to anyone who wants to become a nurse—I say do it. It’s very rewarding. If you have that passion and if you have direction where you want to help people, I would definitely say, keep on it. And you’ll know, you won’t be disappointed with it.

Aliw Pablo: Well, I just want to say thank you both for your time. And for being at the frontline during this terrible pandemic. And we pray for both of you and your health and your safety and your families. And, in case you don’t hear it enough, we just want to thank you for doing all that you do. Thanks, guys.

RJ Dela Cruz: Thank you for connecting me to Warren. It’s been great talking to you.

Warren Sabino: Thank you. I really enjoyed this experience. And it’s really uplifting. So, thank you.

Aliw Pablo: Thanks to RJ and Warren for taking the time to talk with us. And we’d like to thank all the nurses and frontline workers who have been such a tremendous help to families during this pandemic.

Now, if you found value in what you heard in this episode, be sure to share it with another frontline worker or another friend who could use this conversation in their life right now. Be sure to subscribe to the Making Changes podcast on Apple or Google podcasts, or download the INC Media app to stay up to date with new episodes and check out our Making Changes Instagram account so you can see the faces behind the voices. Thanks for listening and may your change uplift you.