Religious Truth Isn’t In Numbers

[Show Open]

[On-screen logo graphic]

INC International Edition

Brother Bob Pellien: Some believe that something must be true and acceptable simply because the majority believes it. Many churches make religious truth claims, leading others to think that because their church has many members and it’s widely accepted, God will approve of their worship and grant them salvation. 

[On-Screen Text Graphics]

TODAY’S TOPIC: NUMBERS DON’T MAKE A RELIGION TRUE

Brother Bob Pellien: But is that really true? I’m Bob Pellien. The Bible will answer that, and we will discuss it right here on the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. 

[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Bob Pellien

San Francisco, California

Minister of the Gospel

Brother Bob Pellien: And joining in this important discussion is our Brother Phil Velázquez in London, England; Brother Ruel Salazar in Jacksonville, Florida, as well as Brother Andrew Fisher in Melbourne, Australia. Welcome to the program and discussion, Brothers. 

Brother Bob Pellien: Dear friends, today we’re talking about the number of members of a religion of the majority, as some would say. How it makes a religion, whether or not it makes a religion true or of God. Many think that well, just because a religion has many members and holds popular religious beliefs or has an appeal to popularity, therefore God will accept the services it renders to Him, and it will lead them to heaven. So let’s discuss this, Brothers. Let’s go to you first, Brother Phil, what’s your take on this idea? Do you think the people there in the United Kingdom feel that way-that it’s okay as long as many people are following that religious concept or belief? Therefore, it has to be true.

[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Phil Velasquez

London, United Kingdom

Minister of the Gospel

[02:15 ] The Majority Can Be Wrong

Brother Phil Velázquez: Yeah, and sadly, Brother Bob, you know that’s what many people do believe. They believe that just because there is a majority or a consensus regarding a certain belief that it must be true. But remember, the truth about a belief doesn’t depend on how many people actually believe in it or adhere to it. Just because many people hold a belief, it doesn’t make it correct. And we can see this throughout history. There have been many, many theories or even truths that were accepted then that were eventually proven wrong, such as the belief that the Earth was flat, or that the Earth is the center of the universe. So we can see just because a belief is widely accepted, or it enjoys the majority of the people’s consensus, it doesn’t make it true.

[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Ruel Salazar

Jacksonville, Florida

Minister of the Gospel

Brother Ruel Salazar: Also, in ethics, Brother Phil, even if most people support an action like let’s say divorce, that doesn’t mean that it is morally right. Good reasoning shows that just because a belief is widely accepted, it does not justify it or prove that it is correct, or it is true.

Brother Bob Pellien: But that’s in ethics, Brother Ruel. But when it comes to religion, can that premise be valid as well in the context of religion, like the large number of members or the popularity of a religion-that’s what determines whether or not the religion is true? Can it be that you know because the majority accepts a certain belief that it’s therefore proven to be true because so many people are following it, right?

Brother Phil Velázquez: Yes, Brother Bob. Even when it comes to religion, the Bible disproves that assumption that just because the majority of people belong to a certain belief or religion that it necessarily already belongs to our Almighty God. And we can see an example during ancient times of how many people, the majority of people, perished, even though they belong to the same belief, and we can read that here in Second Peter two and five. This is what we can read here in Second Peter:  

and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 

[II Peter 2:5 New King James Version] 

Brother Phil Velázquez: So we can see here the ancient world, which was the majority of people, was destroyed by a massive flood. Except for who? A minority. Eight people. Noah along with his family. Why is it that what we can notice with what we read? Even though the majority had the same belief, they rejected the teaching that would have saved them, which was to enter into the ark.

[07:30] Why Are So Many People Deceived?

Brother Bob Pellien: Thank you, Brother Phil. Brothers, why is it that in our time today, where obviously we’re not living in the time of Noah, why is it that in our time so many think that any religious organization must be true and must be of God, just because it has so many members. Why have people developed that way of thinking?

[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Andrew Fisher

Melbourne, Australia

Minister of the Gospel

Brother Andrew Fisher: You know, Brother Bob, it’s an important question, and you know our viewers should really you know understand as well. Should we accept a religion as true, or believe in a religion to be true simply because the majority of people accept its beliefs to be true? I’m going to read a verse in Revelation here in chapter 12, and the verse is 9. This is what the Bible tells us: 

So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 

[Revelation 12:9 New King James Version]

Brother Andrew Fisher: Dear viewers, we shouldn’t accept a religion or church to be true simply because the majority of people believe it to be, because if you notice in the verse that we read, Satan or the Devil, he deceives the whole world. That’s his universal nature to deceive the whole world. Therefore, the majority would be deceived by Satan or the Devil. You know, the Devil has many instruments to deceive people, be it false preachers who teach things that go against what’s in the Bible, and not only false teachers, but even false influences, concepts and ideas that might be spread online on social media that go against the will of our Lord God. All those things are instruments of Satan. That’s why even if the majority rules in certain beliefs, in certain practices, that doesn’t mean that those things are true.

[On-Screen Text Graphics]

TODAY’S TOPIC: NUMBERS DON’T MAKE A RELIGION TRUE

Brother Bob Pellien: Thank you for that, Brother Andrew. That makes a lot of sense and is rooted in what you read from the Holy Bible. Let’s go to you for a moment, Brother Ruel. Would there be many that were victimized by that kind of a global deception that Satan would employ upon the majority?

Brother Ruel Salazar: Well, we can read the answer here in the book of Revelation 20, and the verses are 8 down to 10: 

and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 

[Revelation 20: 8-10 New King James Version]

Brother Ruel Salazar: So, how many will be deceived? We have read as many as the sand of the sea, and because they were deceived by the devil, what will happen to them? They will be condemned. What is that condemnation? The Bible teaches the condemnation is punishment in the lake of fire. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever without any rest. So, just because a religion appeals to many or has a great number of members. That doesn’t mean that that religion is of God. Necessarily means that that religion is true. As we have read many are being deceived, and because they’ve been deceived by the devil, they will be condemned.

[12:00] Does God Choose People Based on Numbers?

Brother Bob Pellien: Just a moment, Brothers. If I may ask you to pause for a second, because you know, I believe our viewers would want to pose this question next, having listened to all that’s been said so far. How can anyone then know who is truly of God? How could anyone know the true religion in our time, which the Bible refers to as, of course the Christian era, how can it be identified, Brothers?

Brother Andrew Fisher: Brother Bob, from what we’ve studied so far, the size of a church is not the basis whether it’s true or not. It simply can’t be considered a definitive measure of its authenticity as a true church, right? Because it’s ultimately our Lord God who determines which church is the genuine representation of His will and His purpose. You know, a church that truly belongs to God and is true. It’s marked by the presence of people that He Himself has chosen, people set apart by God for His plan. That’s why to challenge the idea that a religion’s truth is determined by its membership size, we can read what’s written here in the book of Deuteronomy, chapter 7 and the verses 7. I’ll read what it says: 

The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; 

[Deuteronomy 7:7 New King James Version]

Brother Andrew Fisher: You know, dear viewers, we can see here that in ancient times, the nation of Israel was chosen by God, set apart to be His special people. But their small size compared to other nations, serves as a powerful reminder that true belonging to God it’s not defined by the number of followers or the prominence of a congregation or religious group.

[On-Screen Text Graphics]

TODAY’S TOPIC: NUMBERS DON’T MAKE A RELIGION TRUE

[15:00] The Blessings of Being Set Apart by God

Brother Bob Pellien: You know, Brothers, what would be the benefit, though, of belonging or being among those whom God really set apart for Himself and called to be included in His nation? For the sake of our viewers, what’s the advantage of being among them?

Brother Phil Velázquez: Well, there are a lot of advantages, Brother Bob. For example, we can read in Psalm 4 and 3, chapter 4, verse 3. This is what we can read regarding the advantages. 

But know that the LORD has set apart for Himself him who is godly; The LORD will hear what I call to Him. 

[Psalm 4:3 New King James Version]

Brother Phil Velázquez: We can see, according to what we read, Brother Bob, that there are many advantages, blessings of being called by God. Well, for one, being set apart to belong to God is already a great blessing in itself. God will accept them. He will receive their services. He will also hear their prayers and answer them according to what we read.

Brother Bob Pellien: But wait a second, Brother Phil, because you know what about other people? Didn’t God create everyone? Didn’t He create all people?

Brother Phil Velázquez: That’s another misconception, Brother Bob. A lot of people think just because God created all people, all people already belong to Him. That’s not the case. God created all people, but only a few were chosen to belong to Him, and this is what is based upon the Holy Scriptures. And that means that the ability to serve our Almighty God and gain salvation. It doesn’t depend on how big or numerous a religious organization or group is. Instead, it is which God has set apart for Himself and has chosen. So, a church is truly of God when it has that genuine connection and commitment to God’s purpose or will. It shows that faith and being chosen by God is the most important. It is necessary, much more than the size of any church.

Brother Bob Pellien: Well, Brothers, you know the spread of religion also meant that many churches, and we all witnessed this, right? Many churches claim that they do have a genuine connection to God. Many would also claim that they have been chosen by Him there, and that they are committed to following His will and commands. Many individuals within these various religions may even be said to demonstrate a great devotion in their services to God. So the question then, Brothers, becomes, and this is where we have to pick up after our short break here. You know, when we come back, then we have to. I would like to ask all who are in the discussion panel here to ask and consider these questions. Does all of this mean that all these religions, all spread throughout the world, that they are all truly of God? Does all of this imply because they have devotion and they have great numbers, does it also imply that their members have been chosen. Their members have been set apart by God to belong to Him, because in our time, how can we identify those whom God really has called, has really set apart for Himself to fulfill His purpose? Dear friends, we’ll be discussing this and much more. Stay with us. We’ll be right back right here on the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition.

[On-screen logo graphic]

INC International Edition

[19:00] Testimony: Peter’s Journey to the Church of Christ

Brother Bob Pellien: Welcome back, everyone. Before we continue with our important study and discussion on this topic, and respond to some of those very important questions that we posed just before the break, let’s take a look at this story of Peter from Australia. He grew up Catholic, and everyone that he knew was Catholic, and well, that was the most common religion that he saw around where he lived. But let’s see together how a simple social media post opened Peter’s mind. Let’s take a look together. 

[Video Starts]

[On-Screen Text Graphics]

“Forced To Go To Church”

Mum and Dad said go to church. You know, if you don’t go to church, you get a smack, you know, in your backside. So it’s pretty much being forced to go to church. But to me, I had no clue what God is, and pretty much I’m just copying like everybody else. Not to say that I’m a proud Catholic. I couldn’t understand what the Bible was saying, even though I was reading it. I did feel that something in the Catholic Church wasn’t true. I’m seeing the doctrine of the Catholic Church doing the opposite, that made me question, you know, my faith in the Catholic Church, and made me want to search more. I posted a post about the Catholic Church, and and one of my friend in New Zealand commented on that post, so we were debating on that post in terms of the Catholic faith, and one of the Brothers in Perth, Australia, commented on the post and telling us, “Hey guys, you know, check this website. I think he thinks that this is the true church, so he put the inc website underneath his comment. So that’s the site I went on and had a look at the website. When I click on incmedia.org I started reading all these topics. It was, to be honest, I haven’t. I haven’t read anything like this before. I was at peace reading it. So I replied to this brother in Perth. His name is Don, and asking him for information on how I could find any you know local Church in my area. So he came back two days later and provided me with the phone number of one of the ministers in my area. When I started studying the Bible in the Church Of Christ, it really shocked my system, and I said to myself, I was doing all these things the wrong way, worshiping God, praying to God, because in the Bible, the Bible said, “Do not worship idols.” And as you can see in the Catholic Church, they have all these statues scattered in the church. Now, listening to Brother Glenn, the first lesson he did it actually drew me closer to the listen, and as we go along to the second to the third, it’s my faith grew, and I truly believe that God has shown me the true truth.

[Video ended]

Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Andrew, Peter hails from your region of the world there in Australia. Do you think Peter’s story is unique in Australia?

[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Andrew Fisher

Melbourne, Australia

Minister of the Gospel

Brother Andrew Fisher: To an extent, Brother Bob, because Australia is not really known to be a religious country, especially nowadays and the younger generations. But there are many individuals like Brother Peter who are searching for the truth, and you know, like we’ve discussed so far in this program, some in search for the truth might be inclined to just find the religion or church which has the majority of members who perhaps has the most membership, or the popular church or religion. But like what Brother Peter did, he didn’t simply just look for the church that had the most members. He really searched the scriptures and was open to listen to the words of God, and when he was able to hear and understand the truth that we believe in inside the church, based on the Bible, you know, he came to realize that not all churches belong to our Lord God; that there is a true church, and he found that in the Church Of Christ. Like we’re about to discuss now, we also want many people to understand that truth as well.

[On-Screen Text Graphics]

TODAY’S TOPIC: NUMBERS DON’T MAKE A RELIGION TRUE

[25:00] Sincerity Alone Does Not Save

Brother Bob Pellien: Yes, I hope some of our viewers joining us today will do the same as Brother Peter did. Well, let’s move on, Brothers. You know, before we took that short break, we were posing some very important questions to you. It was noted there that there’s many many people that are very devoted in their service to God, and they’re within various different religions, and they’re very devoted to them. Yet we can read how God sets people apart for Himself. So to continue, does this mean then that all those religions that have members, a lot of members, and those members are devoted within the context of that religion. That they have been chosen, they have been set apart by God? Therefore, they belong to God also.

[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Phil Velasquez

London, United Kingdom

Minister of the Gospel

Brother Phil Velasquez: Further, Bob, I mean, just as what we mentioned earlier on, consensus doesn’t equate to truth like a popular church or the number of people that belong to a church or organization. The same goes for those who believe in God, accept our Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. They may even be sincere or pious in their services to our Lord Jesus Christ and to our Almighty God. It doesn’t necessarily mean that they already belong to God and to our Lord Jesus Christ. So the question is now: Who are those people, according to the Bible, whom God recognizes and accepts? Well, the answer is again written in the Bible. We can read it here in Romans 5:8-9 Apostle Paul teaches us: 

But God shows and clearly proves His [own] love for us by the fact that while we were still sinners, Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) died for us. Therefore, since we are now justified (acquitted, made righteous, and brought into right relationship with God) by Christ’s blood, how much more [certain is it that] we shall be saved by Him from the indignation and wrath of God. 

[Romans 5:8-9 Amplified Bible]

[28:30] Which Church Did Christ Purchase With His Blood?

Brother Phil Velasquez: So you can see it’s very clear according to what we read. In order for people to belong to our Lord Jesus Christ and to our Almighty God, and to be recognized by them as those people who belong to our Almighty God. Having consensus isn’t enough; just being dedicated, devoted isn’t enough. According to what we read, we have to be forgiven of our sins. How? Through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, we have to be amongst those whom our Lord Jesus Christ died for. That’s why it’s so important to understand that Jesus Christ didn’t die for everyone. He died specifically for His church, the one true church.  

[On-Screen Text Graphics]
Ruel Salazar

Pensacola, Florida

Minister of the Gospel

Brother Ruel Salazar: Brother Phil, since there are so many churches established today, which church did Christ die for? Which church that He purchased with His precious blood? Well, we can read the answer to that here in the Book of Acts 20, and the verse is 28. 

Take heed therefore to yourselves and to all the flock, over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you overseers, to feed the church of Christ which He has purchased with his blood. 

[Acts 20:28 George M. Lamsa Translation]

[31:00] God’s Will for Salvation

Brother Ruel Salazar: According to the Holy Scriptures, there’s only one Church that Christ purchased or redeemed with His precious blood. Not all churches, therefore, are true and will bring people closer to God and thus to salvation. The Bible is very clear. The only church which is acquitted, made righteous, and brought into the right relationship with God is none other than the Church Of Christ. 

Brother Andrew Fisher: That’s right, Brother Ruel, the thing is, many people believe in the concept that you know majority rules, but that simply doesn’t apply when it comes to salvation, because salvation isn’t determined by the choices of the majority of people. But it depends on how each individual responds to God’s commands. You know, while God He wants everyone to be saved, He also requires each person to follow his will in order to achieve that salvation, but maybe our viewers are wondering, what is God’s will that all people must do to belong to Christ and to be saved? We can read it in the book of Ephesians, chapter one, in verses 9 and 10. I’ll read what the Holy Scriptures say: 

having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself. That in the dispensation of the fulness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth–in Him. 

[Ephesians 1:9 and 10 New King James Version]

Brother Andrew Fisher: Dear viewers. Anyone who wants to be saved must do not just what the majority of people are doing, but anyone who wants to be saved must do the will of our Lord God to be gathered together in one, in our Lord Jesus Christ. 

[34:00] The One Body of Christ

Brother Bob Pellien: Thank you, Brother Andrew. But you know, it leads to this important question: How can that be done, right? How can this will of God be accomplished by all those who are with us in our program for today?

[On-Screen Text Graphics]

TODAY’S TOPIC: NUMBERS DON’T MAKE A RELIGION TRUE

Brother Andrew Fisher: That’s a good question, Brother. Because some might think just believing in Christ means they’re gathered already in Him. However, the Apostle Paul clarifies in his writings in the Bible that to be gathered together in one in our Lord Jesus Christ we must be in the body the one body of Christ based on what’s written in Romans 12:4 to 5: 

[On-Screen Text Graphics]

For as we have many members in one body,… 

so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and 

Individually members of one another.

[Romans 12:4 New King James Version]

Brother Andrew Fisher: and that one body of Christ wherein we must gather Apostle Paul clarifies in Colossians 1:18 it is the church headed by our Lord Jesus Christ. 

[On-Screen Text Graphics]

And He is the head of the body, the church,…

[Colossians 1:18 New King James Version]

Brother Andrew Fisher: And Apostle Paul also clarifies the name of that church headed by Christ. As Brother Ruel read earlier in Acts 20:28

[On-Screen Text Graphics]

…the church of Christ which he has purchased

with his blood.

[Acts 20:28 George M. Lamsa Translation]

Brother Andrew Fisher: it is none other than the Church of Christ.

Brother Ruel Salazar: Dear viewers, this is the reason members of the Church Of Christ throughout the whole world continue to invite people, so that many will come to know what God wants them to do. People will come to know the commandments of God that they should do for them to be saved, and this is what the members of the Church Of Christ uphold up to now.

Brother Phil Velasquez: And also to our dear viewers, it’s also the reason why members of the Church Of Christ are passionate and dedicated in their services to our Almighty God. You know, maybe many of you have friends, you know people who belong to the Church, and you see how dedicated they are. It’s not fanaticism. We’re driven by the knowledge that what we’re doing is based upon what is true, written in the holy scriptures.

Brother Bob Pellien: So, dear friends, this is what we have learned today from the holy scriptures: the popularity of a religion or the number of its followers and adherents that is not that does not determine whether the religion is true. True religion is based and attested to by the teachings of God here in the Holy Bible. And the Bible clearly states that the true religion in our time is the Church Of Christ. And we pray you’ll be with us soon here inside the Church Of Christ. But for now, we’d like to thank Brother Phil Velasquez in London, England; Brother Ruel Salazar in Jacksonville, Florida; as well as Brother Andrew Fisher there in Melbourne, Australia. Thank you, brothers, for sharing those biblical passages with us and for giving to us Bible-based answers, so that as the apostle Peter said to the members of the Church: 

[On-Screen Text Graphics]

Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope you have. 

[ Peter 3:15 New International Version]

Brother Bob Pellien: That’s one Peter 3:15. Well, that does it for us here today on the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. We do hope you’ll join us again next time. But for now, please join us for a short closing prayer. 

Brother Bob Pellien: Merciful Father in heaven, dear Lord, we join together to thank you. We thank you for bringing those who have joined us in our study today, that they may hear your words of truth. We have shared them, but it is only you, Dear Lord, who can ensure they are deeply embedded within the heart of all who have listened. May you find us worthy of your grace. May you please bless all our guests, most of all. May you open the eyes of their heart, that they may hold tight to what they have heard, and they may continue pursuing, joining with us inside the Church Of Christ, Iglesia Ni Cristo. Heavenly Father, we ask your blessing upon the Church Administration that leads us in this program. We ask Lord Jesus that you will always continue to mediate all our requests to the Father. Most of all, ask His blessing upon all our guests today. Dear Father, we ask all of these things with the firm conviction you will grant your grace upon us all, for we ask in the name of our Savior, Jesus Christ. Amen. 

[On-screen logo graphic]

INC International Edition

[Show Close]