[Show open]
Brother Bob Pellien: Good day to everyone! Thank you very much for a nice warm welcome. We welcome everyone here in the studio audience as well as all those who are joining us on the internet—maybe watching it by means of incmedia.org on your smartphones, through the Facebook pages that we have, or also maybe on channel 49 INCTV in the Philippines. Thank you all so very much for joining us in this episode of…?
Audience: That’s in the Bible!
Brother Bob: You know, dear friends, anyone that’s following the Iglesia Ni Cristo social media outlets, and we do have a few, you are by now very well aware of the intensified efforts of the Church Of Christ, led by the Church Administration, in eradicating poverty all over the world. There’s been a lot of efforts that have been exerted by the Church Of Christ, most especially in the continent of Africa. In order to reach that goal of, well, like I said, eradicating poverty all over the world, Lord willing. The questions that we’ll be addressing in our taping for today of this broadcast of the program That’s in the Bible are questions that come from ordinary citizens that the That’s In The Bible team that went to Africa were able to meet. Some of the ordinary citizens of Africa. And they posed a lot of questions. Like I said, we’re going to address a couple of them here in our broadcast for today.
We were happy to receive some questions because as the continent of Africa learns about the Church Of Christ, it has begun to prompt some questions. We will continue to reach out to our fellow men there and everywhere. The That’s in the Bible team, as I mentioned, recently visited and received the following specific questions to this program. And we’ll be tackling them together, for today. Our first question comes from John, in Johannesburg, South Africa. Let’s take a look at the question that John posed for today.
[Video begins]
John: And the question I have is, who is Jesus? Who is God?
[Video ends]
Are God and Jesus the Same Person?
Brother Bob: “Who is Jesus? Who is God?” These are questions that usually stem from what some would call a confusing, nevertheless, a very common concept that in fact God and Jesus are one and the same. But how does the Bible respond to that? John has asked and the Bible, the Bible gives a response. First of all, we cite from the book of Matthew, chapter 3, verse 17:
And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
[Matthew 3:17 New King James Version]
Brother Bob: Here, dear friends, God is the one who introduced Jesus. God introduced Jesus as His Son. That’s according to the Father Himself. So John asked, “Well, who is Jesus?” God answers by saying, “That’s My Son.” Never has any correct translation of the Bible ever said that Christ is, in fact, God the Son. What can be read very clearly from the Bible is the fact that Christ is the Son of God. God the Son and Son of God are two very, very, different things and they must not be interchanged. Aside from being the Son of God, John’s question was, “Who is Jesus?” So there’s so many verses that we could cite. How else was Jesus introduced in the Holy Scriptures? For example, if we were to read Acts, chapter 2, verse 36, the Bible says and shows that Jesus was made Lord:
“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
[Acts 2:36 New King James Version]
Brother Bob: In the book of Acts as well chapter 5, verse 31, it mentions that Jesus was also made as Savior:
Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
[Acts 5:31 New King James Version]
Brother Bob: In 1 Timothy chapter 2, verse 5, the apostle Paul wrote to Timothy that Jesus was the Mediator between God and man:
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
[1 Timothy 2:5 New King James Version]
Brother Bob: All these attributes are given to our Lord Jesus Christ. So when we say “Who is Jesus?” The Bible does not answer it by saying He is God. And I’d like to cite another statement of Apostle Paul, here in Ephesians 1:22. The Bible says:
And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,
[Ephesians 1:22 New King James Version]
Is Jesus just a man?
Brother Bob: So, dear friends, here the Bible clearly teaches us that Jesus was placed above all things to the Church. This is the Jesus of the Bible. Any other Jesus would be a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible. But here’s the question that some pose when they read that verse: “If Jesus is just a man—as we cited from I Timothy 2:5 just a moment ago—if Jesus is a man (we didn’t read that he was just a man), then why is He also worshipped? In Ephesians 1:22, He was placed above all things. So doesn’t that make Him God?”
First off, no one heard us read or say that Jesus is ‘just a man.’ We cited 1 Timothy 2:5, but it didn’t say that He’s ‘just a man’ or ‘just an ordinary man,’ like all of us. Instead, what you did hear from the Holy Scriptures was the various qualities or distinctive, unique qualities that the Bible gives or attributes to Jesus, which proves that He is not just an ordinary man. And regarding the point [made], “He is worshipped, so therefore He must be God.” Yes, we do worship Jesus. But why? Is it because He is God? Answer of the Bible, Philippians chapter 2, verses 9, 10 and 11, answers this way:
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
[Philippians 2:9-11 New King James Version]
Brother Bob: So, dear friends, based on what we have just read, do we have a reason to worship Jesus even though He’s not God? Absolutely, yes, we worship Him not because He is God but because, as we just read together, God commanded Him to be worshipped. We worship Jesus. Yes. Why? Because …
Audience: That’s in the Bible!
If God put Jesus above everything, is Jesus God?
Brother Bob: That’s in the Bible! Remember obeying the commandments of God, as we just read also, that’s what gives glory to God. God, as we read, highly exalted Jesus, gave Him a name above every other name, and gave the instruction that people at every knee should bow. Bowing is a form of worship. And that’s the commandment and instruction of God to us all. So we have to obey and follow that because that’s what will give glory to God the Father. Sometimes though, people reason out and say for example, “If He’s above everything, that’s got to make Him God. It’s got to make Him God, because only God is above, is placed above everything else.” What do you think, studio audience? Does that seem like a reasonable conclusion to draw?
[Audience nods]
Audience: Yes.
Brother Bob: Seems, seems reasonable. I turn, however, here, 1 Corinthians—Apostle Paul, this is the Good News Bible—I turn to 1 Corinthians 15. Let’s take a look here at verse 27 and 28. How does the Bible respond to that?
For the scripture says, “God put all things under his feet.” It is clear, of course, that the words “all things” do not include God himself, who puts all things under Christ. But when all things have been placed under Christ’s rule, then he himself, the Son, will place himself under God, who placed all things under him; and God will rule completely over all.
[1 Corinthians 15:27-28 Good News Translation]
Brother Bob: Who is over all? God. Jesus is over all, with one exemption. Who’s that?
Audience: God.
What is God’s state of existence?
Brother Bob: God. Still, Christ is under or subject to God. As God has placed all things under Christ, Christ will still be, is still subject, subjected to God. And you know, despite all the great attributes of Christ, the Bible also made very clear—in fact, Jesus Himself made very clear, and we’ll cite a quote directly from Jesus Himself—He made clear His nature, or let’s say His state of existence. Concerning this topic, there’s no one clearer to go to than the Lord Jesus Himself. So we turn to John chapter 8 and ask Him, “What Lord, what then is Your state of existence?” Jesus answers in 8:40 in the book of John:
But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God…
[John 8:40 New King James Version]
Brother Bob: Who spoke this? Jesus. And we know God’s nature is that of a Spirit. And that’s recorded—we often read John 4:24, in this program:
“God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
[John 4:24 New King James Version]
Brother Bob: God is a spirit. What did Jesus just say about Himself? He clearly introduced Himself as a man. He said, I’m a man here to tell you the truth which I heard from God. Christ never said that He Himself is the true God. If He were the true God, He would have introduced Himself as such. According to His own apostles, since Jesus taught them that He was a man, when the apostles started teaching that to the Church, did they change it? How did they teach the Church or what did they teach the Church about Jesus concerning His state of existence? In Apostle Paul’s letter to Timothy here, in 1 Timothy chapter 2, verse 5:
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
[1 Timothy 2:5 New King James Version]
Brother Bob: What the apostles teach, when it came to teaching it to the Church, they didn’t change what Jesus said. Jesus said, I’m a man here to tell you the truth. When the apostles taught that, they didn’t change it. They made [it] very clear that Jesus is a man mediating between whom? God and mankind. If Jesus is God, and He’s the Mediator between God and mankind, and Jesus the Mediator is also God, mediating between God and man, how many Gods, then, would that be? That would be, would be two Gods. How many true Gods are there?
Audience: One.
Brother Bob: Only one. Albeit, Jesus is not just an ordinary man like us, albeit a very, very special man that God performed miracles through. So that by the way, was also mentioned by Apostle Peter in Acts 2:22. But a man nevertheless.
“My fellow Israelites, listen to these words: Jesus from Nazareth was a very special man. God clearly showed this to you. He proved it by the miracles, wonders, and miraculous signs he did through Jesus. You all saw these things, so you know this is true.
[Acts 2:22 Easy-to-Read Version]
Who is God?
Brother Bob: John [from South Africa] also asked in his question—what was the second part, not only who was Jesus, he also wanted to know who is…? Yes, “Who is God?” John also asked, “Who is God?” And it was none other than Jesus Himself who answers John’s question and answers, who the true God is. Let’s take a look at John 17, where Jesus’s words are cited:
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eye to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,… “And this is eternal life, that they may know You,
[John 17:1, 3 New King James Version]
Brother Bob: Allow me to pause, studio audience, who’s praying here? Who’s the speaker written, quoted here by Apostle John, who’s speaking?
Audience: Jesus.
Brother Bob: Who’s He speaking to?
Audience: The Father.
Brother Bob: You can see it on the screen, right? Who’s He addressing?
Audience: The Father.
Brother Bob: Now, while He’s praying to the Father, what important truth did He reveal? Let’s go ahead to verse 3:
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
[John 17:3 The New King James Version]
Brother Bob: Did Jesus make known who the true God is? Absolutely. He introduced the Father as the only true God. So John there in South Africa, to answer both your questions, the first, “Who is Jesus?” He is Savior. He’s the head of the Church. He’s worshipped because God commanded Him to be worshipped. So many attributes were given to Jesus but not Godhood.
“Who is God?” was John’s second question. Jesus answered that too. The Father—and He even used the word “only” to eradicate any confusion—He said the Father’s the only true God. The Bible makes very clear the differentiation between God and Christ then. This is what the Bible is…irrefutable proof of Their distinctness, irrefutable proof of Christ’s true nature as that of a man. Let’s move to the second part of John’s question in Africa. Let’s take a look at it on the screen.
Does Jesus have a family somewhere?
[Video begins]
John: From people I know, they say he has a family, somewhere around the world. So that is what is confusing me now.
[Video ends]
Brother Bob: The second part of John’s question is, well, I’ve heard that Jesus has a family. How many from the studio audience has heard that Jesus has a family?
Brother Bob: You heard that maybe from some very popular movie scripts. It’s been very popular Hollywood movies, a lot of books and discourses made about Jesus marrying Mary Magdalene, [them] having children, and that family lineage continues and there are people seeking to find that. That whole ideology or like I said was popularized by Hollywood in some very popular movies.
But here’s the thing. It’s not in the Bible. It’s just not there. But what is here is a very important principle that we must not forget. Before we [would] just believe in a movie script, or any magazine article that we would pick up and read about these things. Before we believe in that, turn to a principal or an instruction of God, written here through the apostle Paul, 1 Corinthians, 4, verse 6:
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
[1 Corinthians 4:6 New King James Version]
Bother Bob: What’s the principle? Don’t even think beyond what is written. So if it’s not written that Jesus got married to Mary Magdalene, they had children, there’s a lineage, we should be chasing around the world trying to find who’s the DNA connected and all such things like that. That’s all absent from the Scriptures. So the instruction or principle of God must be followed, which says, once again, you saw it on the screen, don’t even what?
Audience: Think.
Brother Bob: Think. Don’t even think that, much less use that as the basis. Those things were just entertainment. But it must never be embraced as the basis for one’s faith. We can’t dwell on those things. What we will dwell on is what is written, and that is the distinction that the Bible gives between God and Jesus and, as we have learned, They are not the same person or the same being. Why do we believe that? Because …
Audience: That’s In The Bible!
Brother Bob: Thank you, studio audience. And thank you, John, for your questions from Africa. When you are ready to learn more about how you, too, can be inside the Church Of Christ, how you, too, can be ready for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you’re ready to learn more about the fundamental teachings found here inside the Church Of Christ, we encourage you, visit incmedia.org. There you’re going to find the various series of programs dedicated to answering all of your spiritual questions. There at incmedia.org you will also find a directory of all the local congregations of the Church Of Christ around the world. You can find the one that is nearest to your home. You can go there, pose these and so many more questions to the ministers that are there waiting for you. They will lead you in Bible studies. Just like we have begun, we’ve only scratched the surface with a couple of questions that came to us from Africa.
Go there, incmedia.org, look up the local congregation there, the address that’s nearest to your home. Go there, join with us in serving and worshiping God. You can also email us your video questions to answers@incmedia.org. Visit our Facebook pages. Join us, here inside the Church Of Christ. We want to thank our studio audience today for joining us in our study. We want to thank everyone for who might be watching us on the internet or channel 49 INCTV or anywhere else you are tuning in from, thank you for joining us in this taping. I hope you have enjoyed the moments we have shared together but more than that, I hope you have learned the truths that we embrace and why do we embrace these truths? Because …
Audience: That’s in the Bible!
Brother Bob: Thank you very much, studio audience. Thank you very much. Thank you all. We’ll see you next time!
