Time codes
02:55 – God is invisible?
03:22- Should people use science to negate the existence of God?
06:32 – Is the Bible a theory?
10:56 – When we say that man is tiny, what are we really saying??
12:50 – Does the Bible speak of someone who is without a beginning?
16:30 – How can men’s knowledge compare to what God has created?
20:41 – Who is that one true God who created all things, whom we are instructed to serve?
Has Science Disproved the Existence of God?
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INC INTERNATIONAL EDITION
[Show Opens]
Brother Bob Pellien: Because of the progress of science. There are those who have dismissed their belief in God. There are even those who feel that God is no longer relevant and even unnecessary to explain the existence of man and the world. Has science succeeded then in disproving God’s existence?
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Does Science Disprove God And The Bible
BOB PELLIEN
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA
MINISTER OF THE GOSPEL
I’m Bob Pellien, we’ll answer this and so much more today, right here on the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition.
Brother Bob Pellien: And joining us today in our broadcast is brother Eric Waterman in Quezon City, Philippines. Hello, Brother Eric.
Brother Eric Waterman: Hello, brother Bob.
Brother Bob Pellien: Joining us as well in Washington, D.C. is Brother Dexter Manglicmot. Brother Dexter, Welcome to our discussion.
Brother Dexter Maglicmot: Thanks for having us, Brother Bob. And hello to everyone during this program.
Brother Bob Pellien: Joining us as well from Vancouver, Canada is brother Felmar Serreno. Brother Felmar Serrano, thanks for joining our discussion as well.
Brother Felmar Serrano: Thanks for having me, Brother Bob. Hello, brothers.
Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers. Today we’re talking about God and science. You know, we’re living in a very scientific age and there are people who believe that all that exists is what can be seen or revealed by science. This has led many to insist on proof, even scientific proof, for the existence of God. Take this video clip, for example. Let’s watch tonight.
[Video Clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYG_mBqTfv4]
Take this video clip, for example. Let’s watch tonight. Is there a God who created us? I’m told that there was this tiny point amidst nothingness, and then, bang, an explosion, and that gradually became our world. You’ve got to give an explanation for how it all got here. For many of you, God is that explanation. Others say God is a fairy tale. So tonight we debate.
Speaker #1: Wherever there’s a gap in scientific knowledge, religion comes in, it says, Well, there was no God.
Speaker #2: Well, there was no gap.
Speaker #3: We have an open mind because we have assumed the answer before we ask the question.
Science asks questions. So what does Bill Nye, the Science Guy, say?
Speaker #4: Is it science versus God?
[Video clip ends]
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Does Science Disprove God And The Bible
BOB PELLIEN
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA
MINISTER OF THE GOSPEL
Brother Bob Pellien: You know, brothers, this is a topic that scholars, scientists and, well, all types of people have been debating about for generations. And now that we live in, well, what we could probably call a YouTube generation. So what people want to see is video evidence of God. As the saying goes, right. To see is to believe. But of course, as we’ve studied before, the true God is a spirit. And it’s been proven then in our lessons in the past that as a spirit, God is invisible, right?
Brother Felmar Serrano: Yes, Brother Bob. Now, before we continue, we want to make it clear, as always, that the Iglesia Ni Cristo, the Church of Christ that we’re members of, we’re not against science per se. And this episode is not an attack on any scientist or any science enthusiast. But we do want to discuss today if it’s okay, and should people use science to negate the existence of God.
Actually, the deeply ingrained idea in culture today is that one cannot believe both in science and God at the same time. In fact, there are those who persist that science has proven that God is nonexistent. Take this clip, for example, from an icon in science and physics, Stephen Hawking, who claimed that God is unnecessary. Let’s watch this. An interview that he had with Larry King.
[Video Clip: CNN – www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddsMNI4be9k]
Larry King: You say that science can explain the universe without the need for a creator or what is that explanation? Why is there something instead of nothing?
Stephen Hawking: Gravity and quantum theory cause the universes to be created spontaneously out of nothing.
Larry King: You write that because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Can you tell me how that law came into existence?
Stephen Hawking: Gravity is a consequence of M theory, which is the only possible unified theory that is like saying, why is 2+2, 4.
Larry King: I guess simply put it, do you believe in God?
Stephen Hawking: God may exist, but science can explain the universe without the need for a creator.
[Video clip ends]
Brother Felmar Serrano: So Stephen Hawking said there that God may exist. However, for him, it’s the laws of gravity and quantum mechanics that created the universe out of nothing. But when asked about those laws and how those laws came into existence, his answer was that they are the consequence of M theory. But brothers, a theory is not a fact.
Brother Bob Pellien: By the way, brother Felmar, for the sake of our viewers, the theory that Stephen Hawking was referring to the M theory. That’s a theory in physics that strives to unify all consistent versions of what is also known as the super string theory. Edward Witten was the man who first conjectured the existence of such a theory at what was actually called a String Theory Conference at the University of Southern California in 1995.
But even he, himself is reported to have said the following, in the very next year, 1996, that M should stand for magic, mystery or membrane according to taste. And the true meaning of the title should be decided when a more fundamental formulation of the theory is known. Having said all of that, brethren, the point is that it’s the fundamental formulation of the theory,it’s not even complete, much less proven.
It’s still a theory in that case. And in that case, is the Bible a theory brothers? Is it the case with the Bible that is an incomplete, unproven theory?
Brother Dexter Maglicmot: Well, absolutely not, Brother Bob. As far as the Holy Scriptures, we have proven in previous studies that it is the inspired word of our Lord God and God’s Word is ultimate truth. This was proven by looking deeply into what has been written in this book, The Bible. Where many prophecies are recorded. We need only check and verify that such recorded events have taken place or not, to determine if what is written in the Bible is true and worthy of our trust.
Brother Bob Pellien: Brother Dexter, hang on a second. What were some examples that we have studied on this program in the past, the past episodes, like what you’re saying there?
Brother Dexter Maglicomot: Well, we’ve studied so many Brother Bob, for example, we’ve reviewed and learned how World War One and World War Two were mentioned by our Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew chapter 24.
For this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
[Matthew 24:6-8 English Standard Version]
Brother Dexter Maglicomot: We also learned the prophecies concerning the increase in man’s knowledge and the subsequent invention of modern means of communication, as well as transportation.
We reviewed how the character of people would become so dangerous at the times ends of the earth or in these last days as mentioned in the Apostle Paul’s letter to Timothy.
But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.
[I Timothy 3:2-4 English Standard Bible]
Brother Dexter Maglicomot: And we’ve learned so much more. And in addition to all those things, the science of archeology continues to unearth ancient ruins mentioned in the Bible, formerly thought by people to be only myths or legends. Modern scientific telescopes of today have also found an empty space in the North without any stars.
This was also mentioned a long time ago in the Bible in the Book of Job. All of these things prove without any room for any doubt that the Bible is worthy of our trust and serves as a basis of true faith.
Brother Bob Pellien: So the point is then, dear friends, while others may look to an unproven theory to explain the origin of laws or origin of the universe. We turn to the truth of God’s words. Brother Eric, why are we so committed to doing that?
Brother Eric Waterman: Because, Brother Bob, the words of God have been proven to be in fact true. Where did the laws of physics, amongst others, come from? Well, let us read what is recorded in the Bible in the first book of the Bible in Genesis chapter 1, the verse is 1:
In the beginning God created the heavens and earth.
[Genesis 1:1 New International Version]
Brother Eric Waterman: So it was the Almighty Lord God that created the heavens and the Earth according to the truth of the Bible. God and His word was the cause of the universe. He created everything, including all the laws of the universe. The Bible gives us the clear and more logical answer to the origin of the universe. God created the universe.
Brother Bob Pellien: So simply put then Brother Eric, it sounds like people really ought to just simply stop contesting the knowledge of God as it’s written there in the Holy Bible, right.
Brother Felmar Serrano: And there are more reasons for that, brother Bob. Take, for example, what we can read here in the Book of Psalms, Chapter 8. The verses are 3 down to 4.
When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him?…
[Psalm 8:3 King James Version]
Brother Felmar Serreno: So agreed, Brother Bob, man should stop contesting God’s words. Because before the range of God’s proven truth and creation, man is tiny.
Brother Bob Pellien: But wait a second, brother Felmar and brothers. When we say that man is tiny, what are we really saying? What is man being compared to when we say that?
Brother Eric Waterman: Brother Bob, let me jump in there and respond, if I may. What is recorded here in Jeremiah chapter 10, and the verse is 12, this is what is recorded:
He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom. And has stretched out the heavens at His discretion.
[Jeremiah 10:12 New King James Version]
Brother Eric Waterman: So God used His wisdom to create the entire universe. And at His discretion, Hhe stretched out the heavens. And so God was the one who determined the laws of the universe according to His discretion and purpose. Stephen Hawking fails to discern the difference between the laws and the operator of those laws. Or who could use those laws. Laws themselves do not create anything at all. Man is tiny, relative to the almighty nature of God—The Creator. God used His infinite wisdom to create and needs nothing more
Brother Dexter Maglicomot: That is absolutely correct, Brother Eric. And those are very good points. The Laws of physics may determine, for example, the trajectory of a baseball after it is hit. But the laws of physics do not hit baseball. It takes someone to do that.
Likewise, the laws of quantum physics and gravity do not create the universe. There may be laws, but somebody has to operate using those laws. The laws by themselves are useless unless there is a creator. If anything, what the grand design shows is that the universe indeed had a beginning.
Applying logic we can reason as follows: One, whatever begins to exist has a creator, two, to the universe began to exist. Three, Therefore, the universe had a creator.
Brother Bob Pellien: But Brother Felmar, let’s go back to you for a second. Does the Bible speak of someone who is without a beginning?
Brother Felmar Serrano: Yes, it does brother Bob. And it’s important. And relative to our study or discussion today. Why is that? Let’s read first what’s stated here in the Book of Psalms, the chapter is 90 and the verse is two:
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world. Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.
[Psalm 90:2 New King James Version]
Brother Felmar Serrano: So before the beginning there was God. God is without beginning the universe. It had a beginning.
Brother Bob Pellien: When did the universe have its beginning, brother Felmar?
Brother Felmar Serrano: Well, Brother Bob, if you’re asking me for the day, month and year when the universe began, you have me stumped there, brother. But we know for sure the universe had a beginning. It began when God created it, when He began to form the universe. And one of the reasons we’re sure of that is because of what stated in the book of Psalms, where the Bible teaches that:
“The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.”
[Psalm 19:1 New King James Version]
Brother Felmar Serrano: Now, if I may give a quick example. If you are to observe a masterpiece of a painting, the details tell you that it was done by a brilliant artist. Now, according to the Holy Scriptures, when we observe the details in heaven, in the firmament, in space, we will understand it is the handiwork, it is the product of the knowledge and the power of God.
Brother Felmar Serrano: And what are some of the details that we have come to know about the firmament and space? Now, I’m not an astronomer here. You can check this general knowledge or these general facts in books or online. All right. So our solar system is just one of the solar systems within our galaxy. Our galaxy is about 100,000 light years wide and about 10,000 light years high. One light year is 6 trillion miles. So you can imagine now how small we are within our own galaxy. Now, here’s the question– How many galaxies are there in the universe? Answers vary, but I think it’s safe to say there are more than 100 billion galaxies in the observable universe.
Now, if you’re going to ask what are the dimensions of the universe, what’s its length? What’s its height? Well, I think that’s already impossible for us to know on our own.
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Does Science Disprove God And The Bible
BOB PELLIEN
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA
MINISTER OF THE GOSPEL
Brother Bob Pellien: So when we come back, dear friends, will pose this question – How can man’s knowledge then compare to the vastness of what God has created? We’ll find out when we return from this break as the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition continues.
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INC INTERNATIONAL EDITION
Brother Bob Pellien: Welcome back to the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. Before we leave for a break, how can man’s knowledge; was the question we’re posing, how can man’s knowledge compare to what God has created?
With our imagination we may go into the farthest reaches of space. We lived out there in some other galaxy. Think how impossible it would be to discover our solar system. First, we would have to find the local group, we have to find the Milky Way Galaxy. And among its millions of stars, we would have to look for, in one of those spiral arms, the ordinary star which we know as our Sun. Even with a 200-inch telescope we would not be able to discover that the Sun is the ruler of a little family of circling bodies, and that one of them is the home of intelligent beings, trying to contest the knowledge of God.
Brother Felmar Serrano: Brothers, we are not even a speck of dust compared to the great vastness of God’s creation. Man’s knowledge is relatively minuscule as compared to the absolute knowledge of the Almighty God. One of the things a person who does not yet believe in the existence of God would admit, is that he or she does not know everything. Would it not then be reasonable to also admit that one of the many things that you do not know is that, in fact, God does exist?
Brother Bob Pellien: Good point, brother Felmar. Let’s go to you, Brother Eric, What are these wonderful pronouncements of God written here in the Holy Bible? What does that prove to all of us? What do all these words of God prove?
Brother Eric Waterman: Well, here in the pronouncement of Jeremiah chapter 10, the verse is 10 and 12. We can read this:
But the Lord is the true God; he is the living God, and the everlasting king. At His wrath the earth will tremble. And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation. He has made the earth by His power. He has established the world by His wisdom, And has stretched out the heavens at His discreaton.
[Jeremiah 10:12 New King James Version]
Brother Eric Waterman: So brother Bob, and their friends, whoever says that God is dead is wrong. Whoever says that there is no God is sorely mistaken. Whoever says God — they do not believe in God, is ignoring the truth of the Bible. The things that we have discussed and pointed out here are convincing and solid proofs that the true and living God exists and that He is God so powerful and strong. An infinite, Almighty and all-knowing God
Brother Bob Pellien: Brothers, what should everyone do now? According to the Bible, now that we have known that there truly is a true God Almighty.
Brother Felmar Serrano: God’s clear instruction is made known to us through what is stated here in the Book of Psalms , Chapter 100 verses 2 down to 3:
Serve the Lord with gladness; Come before His presence with singing. Know that the Lord, He is God; It is He who has made us, and not we ourselves; We are His people and the sheep of His pasture.
[Psalm 100:2-3]
Brother Felmar Serrano: So the clear instruction and expectation of God is that we should know Him and we should serve him. So when people deny the existence of the one true God, it means that they refuse to fulfill the very purpose of their existence or being created by God.
Brother Eric Waterman: And by the way, brothers, who is that one true God who created all things whom we are instructed to serve? Allow me to read what was written in the Bible in John 17, the verses are 1 and 3:
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”
[John 17:3 New King James Version]
Brother Eric Waterman: So the one and only true God is the one that created all things. He is the Father alone. According to the testimony of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Brother Dexter Maglicomot: And to that dear brothers, let me also include what we should always remember and value in our life. Here in Proverbs 19:21, this is what is written:
There are many devices in a man’s heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.
[Proverbs 19:21 King James Version]
Brother Dexter Maglicomot: Did you hear what the Bible teaches unto us, dear friends? It says there are many devices in a man’s heart, there are many opinions that people have, many theories that they might come up with. But in the end, it is the Lord’s counsel that shall stand. We should therefore rest our hopes upon the counsel or the words of one true God. Trust Him and praise Him.
This is why we, as members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo or Church Of Christ, continue to invite you, dear friends, to continue learning with us in the Church Of Christ.
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Does Science Disprove God and The Bible
BOB PELLIEN
SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA
MINISTER OF THE GOSPEL
Brother Bob Pellien: Well, dear friends, we’d like to thank brother Felmar Serrano, in Vancouver, Canada. As well as brother Eric Waterman, in Quezon City, Philippines, and brother Dexter Maglicomot from Washington, D.C. For giving us Bible based answers so that, as the Apostle Peter said to members of the church, you will be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you are living the way you are. That’s 1 Peter 3:15.
Well, that does it for us here in the Iglesia Ni Cristo International Edition. We hope you’ll join us again next time. I’m Brother Bob Pellien. Thanks for watching. And friends, as we’ve come to the end of the program, we’d like to invite you to join us, please, for a short prayer.
Brother Eric Waterman:Our dear and Almighty loving Father, we thank You from the bottom of our hearts for having a share in listening to this message so that we can recognize and serve You properly and that the truth of Your words and existence will guide us in every aspect of our lives. Bless our friends and family who are viewing this program. May You touch their hearts and touch them so they can be with us to serve and worship Your holy name. We believe that You are Almighty, Father, that You are all knowing and omnipresent and that you will guide us in every decision of our lives. Reach out Your mighty hand, dear Father, and guide each and everyone one of us so that we can worship You and be saved by You on the day of judgment. Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, we ask that You intercede this prayer unto the Father, continue to guide us in the righteous path that will lead to You and the promise of our salvation. Father, we ask that You bless each and everyone of us together with our Executive Minister who leads and guides us so that we will lead the perfection of our faith. Bless and guide us in the remainder of this day and guide us as we continue to worship and please thy holy name. Forgive us in all our sins and increase our faith. For these we pray, ever so humbly in the name of our Lord and redeemer Christ Jesus.
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[Show Closes]
