Is God Leading You Into a Relationship?

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Find out if God is leading you into a relationship, showing you red flags, or guiding you to stay in a friendship.

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Is God Leading

You Into a Relationship?

[Lead In]

Martin Zerrudo: So let’s set the stage. You like them. They like you. You’re both members of the Church Of Christ and are of age to start the courting process. What do you do? Are things moving too fast? Too slow? Do things feel easy? And is the relationship progressing naturally? Or does it feel a little forced? What do your friends think? What does your family think? Is God leading you into a relationship? Or is He trying to show you some red flags?

Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation.

[Show open]

Martin Zerrudo: Hello, everyone, hope we’re finding you well, and that you and your family continue to be safe and healthy at this time. Today, we’ll be talking about whether God is leading you into a relationship or if you’re seeing something that maybe isn’t there. A lot of our listeners in the past have reached out and asked us to talk about the one. And we definitely have, but today we’ll be focusing more on being aware of whether or not they aren’t the one. Joining us today is Brother Donald Pinnock, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. Hi, Brother Donald, how are you today?

Brother Donald: Not too bad, Brother Martin. And thank you for having me on the program.

Martin Zerrudo: We always love having you. So we went online and found a couple things people point to as red flags for when you may be forcing a relationship with someone. And here they are. The first one is you talk about them like they’re already your boyfriend or girlfriend, even though you aren’t. Number two, you bend over backwards for them and they never reciprocate. Number three, you defend your relationship to your friends who express concerns. Number four, you make up excuses for why they never call you or text you back right away. And lastly, you tell yourself that they’re going to want a relationship eventually, and that they will change even though they show no signs of it. So Brother Donald, why are so many youth today finding themselves in this predicament where they may be forcing a relationship that isn’t there?

Brother Donald: Well, Brother Martin, there’s so many reasons. For example, there are those who, due to peer pressure, they feel compelled to have a relationship, whether it be an actual one, or, as you mentioned an imagined one, since most of their friends already have a boyfriend or girlfriend. Others may really want to have a meaningful relationship with someone. However, they’re just too fearful of approaching that individual. Of course, they’re afraid of rejection. Thus, they imagine or just assume that the other person has the same feelings for them. And they leave it at that. On the part of the females or as we call sisters in the Church, they may feel attracted to a brother, but in fear of being labeled as too forthcoming or just too aggressive, they resort to telling themselves that the individual they have a crush on has the same feelings or sentiment for them. In order to avoid creating such a scenario, however, it is very important that members of the Church keep in mind the following tenet or teaching of the Bible. And we can read the following in Proverbs 19:14:

Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD.

[Proverbs 19:14 New International Version]

Church Of Christ members then are taught to ask God for everything that they need, including when it comes to a suitable or prudent wife, and in fact, husband for that matter. So in order to avoid creating an awkward circumstance, due to a perceived interest of a brother or sister of the faith, and of course, vice versa, they should conduct what is called a devotional prayer, by which they can ask God to clearly show unto them who would eventually be an appropriate spouse.

Martin Zerrudo: Is it different for men than it is for women? You know, of course, times are changing, expectations in society are shifting and certain traditions may have changed, but as members of the Church Of Christ, who should take charge in asserting feelings and making intentions known, and what happens if things don’t work out?

Brother Donald: That’s a very good series of questions, Brother Martin. As we know in society, normally, it would be the male who would approach the female to express his intent. However, we can see shifting social norms. And that is why now if a female is attracted to a male, she may take the initiative to express her feelings to him. In the Church it is most likely that the male or the brother would express his intent to the sister to establish a relationship. But even during those initial stages, the following Bible teaching is taken into account. In Ephesians 6:2-3 it states:

“Respect your father and mother” is the first commandment that has a promise added: “so that all may go well with you, and you may live a long time in the land.”

[Ephesians 6:2-3 Today’s English Version]

To show proper respect to the parents, then, male and female members of the Church, who feel mutually compelled to get to know each other better, would approach their respective parents to ask permission first. Considering that the husband is the head of the wife, and we can read that in Ephesians 5:23, it would be the brother who would first approach the parents of the sister, whom he intends to court, to ask permission. But he, along with the sister, they should have a righteous purpose, Brother Martin, when it comes to courting one another, as we can glean from the following citation: 2 Timothy 2:22:

Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

[2 Timothy 2:22 New King James Version]

This is why Church members are not supposed to date just for the sake of dating, or to pursue satisfying youthful lust. That is why, especially on the part of the brother, he should conduct himself in the following manner. Psalm 119:9:

How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word.

[Psalm 119:9 New International Version]

The brothers should have a pure intent when it comes to courting a sister and not intend to take any undue advantage of her. The couple should treat each other respectfully, by both of them heeding the teachings of God when it comes to their relationship. Now, if I can add, Brother Martin, if in spite of the best and the purest intentions, that the brother and the sister find that they are incompatible, well, they should mutually agree to stop seeing each other and inform the respective parents of their decision. Now, of course, depending on the amount of time invested during courting, there will be a certain level of sadness and even heartbreak may be experienced at least by one, if not both the male and female or the brother and the sister. Of course, conversing with family and friends would definitely aid in mending a broken heart. All the more, however, we should pray to God, because He’s more than capable, of course, of doing the following for us. As we can read here in Psalm 34:15,17-19 New International Version:

The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their cry; … The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles. The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. The righteous person may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all;

[Psalms 34:15, 17-19 New International Version]

So it is very clear, Brother Martin, that the Lord our God is more than capable to help one heal after experiencing the emotional pain of a romantic breakup.

Martin Zerrudo: So ultimately, Brother Donald, how can we determine if God doesn’t want us to be with someone?

Brother Donald: Well, we mentioned earlier the importance of conducting that devotional prayer, asking God to guide us to who would be a suitable spouse for us. It is possible that we could meet a brother or sister in the Church, but if during their getting to know each other, or their courting, there are repeated issues, arguments, misunderstandings, and a general disharmony, then it should be fairly obvious that the couple are incompatible. Again, it would be best for both parties to mutually part ways and continue to do their part in preserving what we call as the love of the brotherhood in spite of not being connected romantically.

Martin Zerrudo: Right. I remember, Brother Donald, you know, when I was younger, I was in a relationship and it didn’t work out and of course I was broken-hearted, was very sad and you know, you feel like oh man the world’s coming to an end because this person who I cared about so much who, you know, cared about me—I guess we don’t have a future together. And in my mindset at that time in my late teens, it felt so final, it felt like this is it. Never gonna find love again. I’m gonna be alone forever because it didn’t work out with this one person. And then you know, fast forward to today. That person is happily married. I’m happily married, very cordial when we see each other at the chapel. And it just goes to show exactly what you’re talking about that the focus is on, you know, really trying to pray and read about what God is showing you. And if it doesn’t work out, to maintain that love for the brotherhood that’s so important. And I’m happy to be able to see that it, you know, it truly does pan out so long as you put your faith and trust in God, even if the relationship doesn’t end up moving forward.

Brother Donald: Well, you know, when it comes to, especially experiencing what we imagine as love in our teenage years or young adulthood, and it doesn’t work out? Well, we can really say that the emotional impact is very hurting for many people. It takes quite some time in order to recover. It feels as if, in the midst of that breakup, as if the world is just imploding upon oneself. And it really takes some time to emotionally heal, and get on with life. But like you said, especially through prayer and trusting in God, then He’ll help us to heal. We can get along, we learned from our experience, and God be willing just like what happened to you and others, they eventually meet Mr. or Mrs. Right. And it is really to happily live ever after. It doesn’t mean to say of course, there’s no challenges. When it comes to marriage and living in this world there’ll always be challenges. But you know, there’s the right chemistry, and we still continue to trust God when we’re married to our spouse, and God is there to help us over those, those rough patches.

Martin Zerrudo: Definitely. Now that we know how to read some of those warning signs or red flags, Brother Donald, how do we know, you know, conversely, how do we know if God wants you to be with someone? Well, how do we know that, hey, this is your sign right here, they’re right in front of you, they’re standing in front of you ready to go?

Brother Donald: Well, we won’t see a burning bush, for example. In fact, that would be ideal, but being members of the Church Of Christ, it is our faith that God is going to guide us in a way that we should go or the path that we should take in our life. In fact, we can read that in Psalm 31:1 ,3:

I come to you, LORD, for protection; never let me be defeated. You are a righteous God; save me, I pray! … You are my refuge and defense; guide me and lead me as you have promised.

[Psalm 31:1, 3 Today’s English Version]

So again, it shows the importance of prayer, Brother Martin, because through prayer, we can ask God to guide us in every aspect of our life, not just when it comes to our education, including when it comes to the one whom we could be potentially spending the rest of our life together. If there’s a chemistry and compatibility between the two, if they for example, find an easiness being together. And these and other feelings, they don’t dissipate, but rather they continue to grow even more prominent through the passage of time, then these are very strong indications that we have met the one for us. That is why it is imperative that a couple know each other well. And this can only happen through expending a significant amount of time and effort when it comes to the relationship. In the Church, our romantic relationship, of course, is with the intent that God be willing it will lead to marriage. And we know that marriage is a lifelong commitment. That is why great care and patience has to be taken to avoid a greater and lasting heartbreak of getting married just for the sake of it. Just because for example, a sister feels her biological clock is ticking or a brother, he sees that his peers are already married, so he needs to get married, and a brother or sister they meet one another and perhaps just after a few months are already talking about marriage, when in truth, they don’t really know each other well enough. And that’s why it cannot be overstressed the importance of really getting to know an individual well virtually on all levels in order for us to really find out if we have that strong basis to be able to commit to one another. And again, this is for a lifetime. So, great care, again, patience has to be taken to avoid a greater and lasting heartbreak of getting married just for the sake of it. And then through the passage of time we find out that we’re going to be struggling to commit to that commandment of God that when it comes to married couples, they should remain joined together till death do they part.

Martin Zerrudo: Now when someone says, Brother Donald, if God wants you to be with someone, He will make it happen. How does a member of the Church Of Christ understand that, if He wants it to happen, it’ll happen?

Brother Donald: Well, the Lord our God wants the very best for His chosen people. In Jeremiah 29:11, God Himself makes known through the prophet:

For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

[Jeremiah 29:11 New International Version]

Because of this, when it comes to us members of the Church Of Christ, we really have to entrust ourselves to God, because we understand according to the many teachings, and also most especially when it comes to the fulfillment of many prophecies that we belong to God. And when God says, I know the plans I have for you, the you there being referred to are His people. And what, again, are the plans of God? He says, “Plans to prosper you, and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.” This is the very reason why when it comes to members of the Church Of Christ, they’re not going to rely upon their so-called abilities or their intelligence, or their so-called wisdom that they may have gained through education. They’re not going to place their wholehearted hope and trust when it comes to their fellow men. Even if when it comes to those connections or people they know they are in positions of influence and power, a member of the Church Of Christ is going to place their wholehearted hope and trust in the power and the ability of the One who created them: they’re going to place it in God. That is why when it comes to finding the most suitable partner, as a spouse for us, again, that is the very reason why we should place our trust in God and we should pray unto Him, and God in turn is going to steer the course of our life.

Martin Zerrudo: We want to thank you so much, Brother Donald, for that spiritual guidance and advice for those wonderful verses and really putting into context some of these questions that our listeners have. For our audience members out there, take the time to really reflect on the things that we heard today and try and see, really see: what is God trying to tell you? Is this something that He wants you to be in? Or is it not? And at the end of the day, of course, based off of the verses, trusting in God will always lead us to the right answer. So thank you, again, so much, Brother Donald, for joining us today. We always appreciate your wonderful advice.

Brother Donald: Well, thank you so much, Brother Martin, I truly enjoy myself on this program, discussing important matters like this with you. And again, with God’s mercy maybe when it comes to our listeners, especially those who are in this stage of their life, that they are looking for that significant other, that they will abide by these decrees or these tenets of the Lord our God. And again, you know, don’t rush into marriage, because it is a lifetime commitment. Better if, for example, during the courting period of a relationship, and that there are so many upheavals and it really points that, you know, there is a strong incompatibility there, even though it may be painful, better the pain that will be for a short period of time, instead of the pain of getting married because we insisted upon it, but then having to face that pain until as we read earlier, death do us part. So again, let’s trust God, follow His decrees, and God is the One who’s going to guide us.

Martin Zerrudo: That’s fantastic. Thank you so much for that, Brother Donald. To our listeners, please continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart and Soul. That’s it from us today. We hope we were able to help, hope we were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

Always Trust God (Especially After A Breakup)

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Post-breakup emotions can be messy. Find out why you should trust in God after a breakup.

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[Lead In]

Martin Zerrudo: Getting over a breakup isn’t easy. It can be a painful, sad and prolonged period of self-reflection. Many turn to friends, family and social media to find solace in their grief. Now when someone we care about, someone we love leaves, we’re left with so many questions. What if the answer to these questions—and about how to heal after a breakup, how to overcome a broken heart—what if they could be found in Bible verses?

Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation.

[Show open]

Martin Zerrudo: Last year, I was able to talk to a listener, let’s call her Jaya. Jaya is in her late 20s and lives in Anaheim, California. And at the time of our conversation, Jaya and her boyfriend, we’ll call him Blake, were very much in love.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

He was always someone that I was able to talk to really well, because we had a lot of common interests at the same time. We didn’t really have any problems like butting heads about things. We were always able to talk about anything.

Martin Zerrudo: While some might find this rare, it’s because they’ve known each other for years and shared a common interest.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

We’ve actually known each other for a really long time. We’ve known each other for maybe like over a decade. We’ve always been really, really good friends. Yeah, we were really good friends. We fed off of each other really well. Simple things like you know, playing video games together. That was something we always did. That was something we always enjoyed.

Martin Zerrudo: Jaya actually had feelings for Blake, but he didn’t feel the same at the time. Fast forward to now, when Blake confessed his feelings for Jaya, she had a funny way of responding.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

Yeah, 10 years ago, he rejected me. I remember exactly what he said to me 10 years ago. I kinda remember word for word, what he said to me. He said, like, “Oh, well, this is awkward.” I was like I said, and so, you know, when it happened again, like when he came around, and he was saying [he had feelings for me] Yeah, I jokingly, like [replied] well, this is awkward.

Martin Zerrudo: Like the rest of the world, when the pandemic happened, their relationship would hit a brick wall, as their ability to spend time with each other was severely impacted.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

We had ended up not seeing each other, but we were definitely a lot more sensitive. When we weren’t communicating, it was hurting us more. Things got really messy.

Martin Zerrudo: They would have a big fight, their first in their relationship. And then Blake would send a text message that changed everything.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

Just had like our first I don’t know if I call it a fight, but it was really the moment things really fell apart.

Martin Zerrudo: They wouldn’t talk for three months.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

Yeah, I think we’re done. That’s all that was said.

Martin Zerrudo: Joining us now is Brother Donald Pinnock, a minister of the gospel of the Church Of Christ. Brother Donald, thank you so much for joining us today. How are you?

Brother Donald: Oh, I’m not too bad. Thank you, Brother Martin, for having me.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you for joining us again, trusting God after a breakup, Brother Donald, is what we all should do. But help our listeners put that into context. What does the Bible exactly say about dealing with a broken heart?

Brother Donald: Well, first of all, Brother Martin, as we know, having one’s heart emotionally broken, is of course very, very painful. The time it takes to mend a broken heart varies from person to person. But if there is a common experience, it is that a feeling even physically ill at the deepest point of exasperation. In order to aid in the healing of a broken heart, Church Of Christ members are reminded of the following in Psalms 34:18 it states:

The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, And saves such as have a contrite spirit.

[Psalm 34:18 New King James Version]

So members of the Church Of Christ are reminded to turn to God at all times. But most especially when they feel down, despondent or brokenhearted, because as the Bible teaches, God is near to His servants, whether it is because of their disappointment in failed aspirations, or even when it comes to a relationship, that in spite of their best efforts, it just didn’t work out. And of course, the most ideal way of turning to God is through prayer. And those who do so with a contrite or sincere spirit, the Bible teaches that God will hear and God will save them. Just how God will save those who are downtrodden and hurting emotionally is explained here in I Peter 5:6-7:

Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.

[I Peter 5:6-7: New International Version]

Now, when it comes to our Almighty God, He may utilize instruments in uplifting us from the doldrums we find ourselves in. But He is the ultimate reason why we will be able to emerge from such a precipice and be able to get on with our lives with optimism. And that’s important.

Martin Zerrudo: So while we are not immune to heartbreak, what do members of the INC or Iglesia Ni Cristo, have that can help them during such a period of pain and sadness?

Brother Donald: Brother Martin it’s none other than our faith in God. And when we say faith meaning to say we place all our hope, and also our confidence in what He can do for us, because we trust that God will never abandon His chosen people, as we can read in Isaiah 63:8-9. All the more this gives us confidence. And allow me to quote:

The LORD said, “They are my people; they will not deceive me.” And so he saved them from all their suffering. It was not an angel, but the LORD himself who saved them. In his love and compassion he rescued them. He had always taken care of them in the past,
[Isaiah 63:8-9 Today’s English Version]

That saving grace of God has been experienced many times by Church Of Christ members throughout their life, not just from physical dangers or perils. But even when it comes to having one’s spirit uplifted, after experiencing emotional upheavals, including heartbreak because of a failed relationship.

Martin Zerrudo: When it comes to those failed relationships, you know, sometimes you just can’t avoid them, no matter how hard we hope that they’re going to work out. So what advice do you have, Brother Donald, for those who have recently gotten their heart broken? Why should they hold on to hope when, at this point in their life, they feel kind of hopeless?

Brother Donald: There’s no doubt whatsoever that God cares so much for those who are recognized as His people or His children. And of course, He wants the very best for them in their life. That is why for those who may have experienced heartbreak, it could be that God is actually saving them from the more severe heartbreak of, for example, getting married to someone who in the initial stages of courting may have appeared to be that ideal partner, but through the passage of time and getting to know them, actually, they are not truly compatible.

We may feel emotional pain for a period of time, but not the prolonged pain of being married to someone whom we eventually find to be unbearable or impossible to live with. And of course, we would have God to thank for that. On the other hand, perhaps the parting of ways of those who were courting was just a test, it was just a trial to determine the level of their love and affection for one another, that if both parties truly love one another, well, they would reconcile, they could move on and their bond would be even stronger.

But still, we can’t gamble when it comes to our married future, but rather, we should follow what the Bible teaches here in Proverbs 19:14:

Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD.

[Proverbs 19:14 New International Version]

Brother Martin, you know, physical and emotional compatibility, it’s important to a successful relationship. I mean, you have to feel some kind of attraction to another, is it not? But we should not base our decision when it comes to choosing a spouse on our personal assessment or not just when it comes to the physical appearance. Because love itself is not just skin deep. That is the reason why we should ask God perhaps through a devotional prayer, to grant us a prudent or suitable spouse.

This is what so many Church Of Christ members have done and that is why it’s no surprise that marriages in the Church, they last until the proverbial words death do they part. May those who are not yet married, but are endeavoring to do so eventually experience the joy of a lasting marriage, a marriage that was sanctioned by God, a marriage between a man and a woman, members of the Church who truly adhere to the teachings of our Father in heaven, and they can feel that they are being matched by the Lord our God, and because of this, their marriage would indeed be a joyful and lasting one. Of course, once they are married the importance of living in accordance with the tenets or the statutes of our Father in Heaven, the responsibilities of the husband to the wife, vice versa, the wife to the husband, and if they’re going to be blessed with children, how they should rear those children. If we are going to utilize wisely, the teachings of the Lord our God in every aspect of our life, including when it comes to married life, then we are going to be blessed.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much for those wonderful verses. Whatever stage you may be in looking for love, praying for love, being in love, may be falling out of love and being heartbroken. It’s refreshing, inspiring, and it does fill us with hope to know that regardless of whatever stage you may be in romantically, that God is with you every step of the way. Now, just to close it off by Brother Donald, is it different now, because there’s a pandemic, because people are at home, maybe we’re all a little bit more on edge when it comes to dealing with a broken heart? How does somebody who’s isolated at home overcome all of this? Because it’s such a different time to be handling these kinds of emotions.

Brother Donald: It’s a really good question, Brother Martin, because of course, just being virtually isolated in one’s abode, by themselves under normal circumstances. I mean, there’s just so much pressure, emotionally, mentally. But if you’re going to add that broken heart scenario, because of a failed relationship, but of course, it compounds everything. Definitely, again, we need to believe in the power of prayer.

But at the same time, even though physically we may be isolated, we can utilize different means of communication, just to reach out to our friends, those who are close unto us just to have a conversation. So if we keep our friends and loved ones in the loop, we try our best to communicate with them, then they can also be God’s instruments in order to help alleviate those adverse feelings that we may be going through because of isolation plus broken-heartedness due to a relationship that just didn’t work out.

And at the same time, I can’t help but reiterate this point, that when it comes to a young couple who may be courting, but then the relationship just did not work out being members of the Church, we understand that marriage is a lifetime commitment. So it may sound harsh, but at the same time, you know, if there’s no real compatibility, there’s just too many differences when it comes to our characteristics. And that relationship does not work out. Well, when it comes to that pain that we may go through due to a breakup, and we mentioned it earlier, it’s much better than having a lasting pain of having to live with somebody whom there really is not that two-way love, or even to the point that you may separate abodes, but yet you cannot marry again because you know, we stand when it comes to the teachings of God that marriage is a lifetime commitment. That kind of pain is avoided, if before we got married, again, the Lord our God allowed us to really see who our to be spouse, what their true identities and their true characteristics are.

And perhaps God is showing unto us well, even though they are not a bad person, per se, but when it comes to having that intimate and that lasting relationship in marriage, then perhaps it’s best if you do not continue. So again, it shows the importance of just placing our trust, our hope, and the guidance of God through prayer. We ask God for a suitable spouse, we meet somebody, it’s not compatible. That’s not the suitable spouse that God has in mind for us.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much for that, Brother Donald, hearing those words, as someone myself who is now married, it’s so true to trust the process, trust your prayers, and the one that you’re meant to be with is definitely the one you’ll end up with, because they came from God. So thank you so much for that, Brother Donald, thank you so much for joining us today.

Brother Donald: And thank you so much for having me, Brother Martin it was a pleasure.

Martin Zerrudo: As always Brother Donald. To our listeners, please continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things heart and soul. Oh, and I recently reached out to Jaya to see how she’s doing. And she tells us that she and Blake have resolved their issues. I guess they trusted the process because with God’s help they were able to give it another try.

Brother Donald: Oh, that’s fantastic news.

Martin Zerrudo: There’s hope for us all. That’s it from us today. Hope we were able to connect, hope we were able to help and hope you’ll join us next time. Ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

How To Prepare For A Successful Marriage

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Learn what you should know before popping the big question and how can you make sure that you end up having a successful marriage.

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How To Prepare For

A Successful Marriage

[Lead In]

Martin Zerrudo: Is the next step for you and your significant other marriage? Is it something you’ve already talked about planning for? Is that a topic you’re currently avoiding? What should you know before popping the question and how can you make sure that you end up having a successful marriage?

Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation.

[Show open]

Martin Zerrudo: Hello, everyone, hope you’re doing well and are safe at home. Today, our topic is focused on helping our listeners gain a better understanding on what to expect when getting married and what to do to make sure their marriage can be happy and successful. At the end of the day, we want to give you as much information and guidance before you commit to one of the most important decisions of your lives. And joining me today to help us with that is Brother Felmar Serreno, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. Brother Felmar is a husband and father of two and is also the minister on the brand new Happy Life podcast, a podcast where newlyweds can get some tips on having a successful marriage. Hi, Brother Felmar, how are you today?

Brother Felmar: Hello, Martin, and to the Heart & Soul team and to everyone who’s tuning in. I’m doing well, Martin, thank you for asking. And I just like to say it’s a great pleasure for me to be here on Heart & Soul.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much, Brother Felmar. And thank you for taking the time to help us with such an important topic that is pivotal and is an important topic for many of our young adult listeners. So, when it comes to deciding when a couple in the Church Of Christ should marry, what are some of the questions that they should be asking themselves?

Brother Felmar: To answer that, let’s first be reminded that a true spouse is from God. This is proven to us by the Bible in Proverbs 19: 14 we’ll quote from the New Revised Standard Version:

Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD.

[Proverbs 19:14 New Revised Standard Version]

So based on this, one of the very important questions to ask oneself prior to getting married is, is this person that I am courting, or is courting me the answer to my prayers? Is this person the blessing to me from God?

Another important question to ask oneself prior to getting married is, am I ready for the blessing like what we heard from the Holy Scriptures, house and wealth are inherited from parents, but house and wealth or other possessions are not just things you just receive? Right? You need to take care of them. There are responsibilities that need to be fulfilled. So, so much more when it comes to marriage.

According to the Bible, in God’s design of marriage, which is the true and right design, there are responsibilities for the husband, and there are responsibilities for the wife, and there are also shared responsibilities. That’s why on the Happy Life podcast, we discuss things like making adjustments, expectations, communication as a married couple for members in the Church Of Christ who are at the courtship stage. Be sure to ask yourselves even before getting engaged. Are you ready for the blessing and the responsibilities that come with marriage? It’s important to consider that you have feelings for each other. But it’s also important to consider how compatible you are with one another, especially when it comes to working together and shouldering and fulfilling the responsibilities that come with marriage.

It’s important to ask too, if you are ready, financially, mentally and above all, are you ready spiritually? So I hope, Martin, that answers your question regarding some of the things that others ought to be asking themselves before getting married.

Martin Zerrudo: Of course, we want to be able to ask those questions so that it helps us prepare, like you mentioned financially, mentally, and above all spiritually. But some might say, Well, I know some successful couples who weren’t 100% ready financially, and they worked out. Maybe they rushed into it too quickly, but it worked out. What would be our answer to those kinds of scenarios?

Brother Felmar: Well, going back to the Holy Scriptures, to the verse that we just read in Proverbs 19:14, the truth is clear. A prudent wife is from the Lord. So a true spouse will come from the Lord God. So if it is the will of God that He will grant to an individual the true spouse, the answer to that individual’s prayer, and maybe it would not necessarily fit the timeline, so to say, when it comes to the norm, right, on how others have gotten married, but that is the will of God for that particular couple. So by God’s grace and mercy, things will fall into place.

However, that doesn’t mean that we should rush into marriage. Based on the Holy Scriptures, marriage is sacred, so we ought to be careful, and we ought to make the necessary preparations so that we will be able not only to receive the blessing, but to continue to take care of the blessing of marriage that comes from the Lord God,

Martin Zerrudo: Very true, Brother Felmar, and I guess it just all the more indicates why the decision to get married in the INC is not one we take lightly. So how does one know when they’re ready to make an important decision? What if they feel like okay I may have all my ducks in a row, financially ready, I think God is answering my prayer. How do they know it’s time to make that important decision?

Brother Felmar: Well, I think if those who are currently in courtship can say, “Yes, we care for each other.” So those feelings are there. But they can also say “Yes, we have proven ourselves to be compatible with one another.” Because even though emotionally, you know, they care for each other, they feel deeply about each other. But there are moments that arise where the compatibility is in question, a lot of times they’re fighting. Well, that can’t be a good sign. So that’s something that should be considered. What else? Again, we should also be able to say, “Yes, we are ready financially.” That is something that is important, because according to the Holy Scriptures, we ought to be able to provide for our household. What else should be considered? That we can say “Yes, we are also mentally ready. We are capable of making mature and responsible decisions. But above all, we are ready spiritually.” A man and woman who are about to make that decision to go into marriage must make sure that they are ready spiritually, both are spiritually mature.

So if we can say yes to all of these questions, then I’d say you’re pretty ready. I’d say, What are you waiting for? Assuming of course, you’re both of legal age. In addition to that, Martin, here’s a Bible verse, a teaching from the Holy Scriptures, that should also be considered here in the book of Proverbs 3:5-6 in the New King James Version:

Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.

[Proverbs 3:5-6 New King James Version]

If you trust in the Lord with all your heart, if you acknowledge God, if you pray to Him regularly, the Bible says, “He shall direct your paths.” And that has been the experience of many members in the Church Of Christ, when we were not yet ready for marriage, although maybe we wanted to get married, but God, who knows us better than we know ourselves, He knew that we were not yet ready. God directed us. And when the time was right, God directed us again. But to avail of this wonderful and precise direction from God, it is crucial that we do trust in God with all of our heart, and that we are prayerful.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar. As someone who has been married for a couple of years now, can you describe to our listeners, maybe for those who are not members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Church Of Christ, the beauty and the splendor that is a blessed marriage within the Church Of Christ. Can you describe to our audience what that is like?

Brother Felmar: You know, it’s very hard to put into words. It’s very hard to put into words. The Bible teaches us that when we put God first, when we make God our happiness, He will give us our heart’s desire. And that’s why I mentioned earlier, how wonderful it is to have that direction, that precise direction from God, because only the Almighty God knows us better than we know ourselves. He knows exactly who the right match will be for us. There are many things we cannot foresee going into marriage. Although you know, with what we can see things may look like they align. But there are also things we cannot see, because we are human beings, we are limited with what we know and what we can foresee. We don’t know what will happen five years from now, 10 years from now. Maybe in courtship, the chemistry is there. But will the chemistry still be there when challenges come, when you may lose your livelihood, or when your spouse is ill? But God knows those things. So again, only the Almighty God knows who the exact match will be for us, who will be our true partner in life and will compliment us on all levels, and above all, will be with us in our services to God. In worshipping Him and putting our faith in Him and in praying to Him, you know, until we make it to our salvation.

So having said that, to all of our listeners and, and to our friends who are not members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo or the Church Of Christ, the priority would be God. Know God first, make the Almighty God our happiness, understand His teachings and all of his commandments that we must fulfill so that we prove to God He is our happiness. And that’s why we always invite our friends and loved ones to know more about the Church Of Christ. Of course, we’re so happy when we have our friends and loved ones who are with us in the Church Of Christ, but really that invitation is for you. It’s for our friends, so that they will be able to experience how wonderful it is to have the true God and to receive His blessings. And a very important and crucial blessing in life is true marriage that comes from God.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar. And as you as a husband, how does that make you feel that that’s a blessing that you’ve been given in life?

Brother Felmar: It’s humbling that you know, like, the Bible says, when God is your happiness, He will give you your heart’s desire. So those qualities that I hoped for and prayed for, you know, when I was still single and praying for a spouse who not only would be my partner in life, but my partner in the holy ministry, so it is humbling that God, you know, He gave me really like what the Bible says, one’s heart’s desire. I don’t want it to seem like you know, I’m making my wife sound like she’s, you know, this perfect woman. There’s no such thing as a perfect man or woman, right? So, but really, you know, there’s the perfect one for you.

Martin Zerrudo: So thank you so much, Brother Felmar, for those wonderful verses and the spiritual advice. For our listeners who are considering getting married, and especially for our listeners who are newlyweds, we have a brand new podcast we recently launched and I’d love to share it with you. It’s called Happy Life, where you’ll have none other than Brother Felmar and Host Sister Myrtle Alegado to help provide Bible-based advice and guidance to newlyweds in the INC as they begin their new journey together. Brother Felmar, what can listeners look forward to when they tune in to Happy Life?

Brother Felmar: So you have to listen to each episode from start to finish, so that you can come away with the complete package that each episode brings, which includes reliable and relevant marriage tips from real life experiences of newlyweds who guest on the show. More importantly, Bible-based teachings, which are the foundation for a happy and enduring marriage. These teachings can be applied to resolving conflicts that may arise in marriage, as well as preventing future conflicts, especially serious ones that could severely harm a marriage. Our warmhearted and spirited host, Myrtle Alegado, does a wonderful job of keeping the discussion meaningful, focused on the topic at hand, and we have fun too. So lots to look forward to on Happy Life.

Martin Zerrudo: I believe you also have an Instagram account.

Brother Felmar: We do. Yes. Thank you for mentioning that, Martin. So yes, please, if everyone tuning in could follow us on Instagram, subscribe on Apple podcast, Google podcast. And of course you can find us as well on our website incmedia.org.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar, thank you so much for joining us for providing that wonderful insight. Please, for all of our listeners continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & Soul. Thank you so much, Brother Felmar, for joining us. We really appreciate it.

Brother Felmar: All praises be to God and thank you as well, Martin, and to the Heart & Soul team.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much, this your first time hopefully not the last. We look forward to it in the future. That’s it from us today. Hope we were able to help, hope we were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

What Does Self-Reflection Mean?

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Reflecting on life can be effective in providing insight and perspective. But sometimes it’s not always no clear. So, what does self-reflection mean?

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What Does Self-Reflection Mean?

[Lead In]

Martin Zerrudo: When you reflect on the meaning of your own life, the struggles you’ve gone through, how does it make you feel? Strong for having gone through it? Sad for having to still deal with it? What does self-reflection really mean in the grand scheme of things? And more importantly, what do you think God is trying to tell you? Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation.

[Show open]

Martin Zerrudo: Hello, everyone, hope we’re finding you well, and that you and your family continue to be safe and healthy at this time. When talking about the importance of self-reflection. It’s an area that a lot of people can use some help with. According to some studies, the self help industry will be worth over $13 billion in 2022. This translates to millions of different methods out there meant to help us with how to reflect or how to get through the hardest times in our life. We recently asked on our Instagram @incmedianews using #heartandsoulconversations, what kind of struggles in life have you gone through, and here’s what you had to say.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

Crippling levels of undiagnosed clinical depression, anxiety and migraines. I thought that was simply how people lived, and assumed that it was normal. I wasn’t happy most of the time, all the way up through high school.

Being in a family that moves from one place to another, we’re trained that our lives change every two years. And so we must learn to adapt. As the new kid in town all the time I had to adjust. I did my best to excel my classes that I got bullied for being included in the honor roll. Even teachers and faculty staff bullied me, even parents who lived near us spread rumors about me. Growing up being the unreasonably disliked kid was tough.

I would say loneliness, though there are those times when I felt the heaviness of being lonely, or feeling like I don’t have anybody there for me when I’m going through a hard time. And just feeling like I don’t have any friends.

Martin Zerrudo: According to betterhelp.com three of the most common reasons why people give up on life are mental health issues, the feeling of not fitting in, and loneliness. And if you listen back to those clips that we just played, those listeners were going through exactly those things. So why didn’t they give up? Well, we asked them, Why didn’t those struggles break your will?

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

What kept me going through day to day and dark nights were singing hymns and praying to God.

It was traumatic. But it was also the time that I learned how faith works.

When I feel like I’m on the brink of giving up, God provides a light of hope. And to know good things and good people are out there. I just have to keep praying and always have that sense of hope.

Martin Zerrudo: For some of our listeners, when it came to struggles, it surprised them how hard it would hurt, especially when it came from a place that they least expected.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

Being hit hard with my anxiety due to finding out the people I thought were my friends weren’t really treating me as one behind my back. I didn’t expect it to affect me to that extent. But it really shook my mental state at that time. I felt alone and my anxiety made me feel like I had no one to trust anymore. Because despite having the purest of intentions, people will still find something to pick on about you.

Martin Zerrudo: Thankfully, as members of the Church Of Christ, when we take the time to reflect we have the ability to combine our self-reflection and introspection with our faith.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

But I am so glad I got through that. Crying out everything to Him during my nightly devotional prayers really helped me get through that tough part. And I can honestly say that, despite it being a painful experience, it woke me up to the realities of life. And I learned so much from it. I just always keep in mind that our Lord God won’t ever leave our sides when things get hard.

Martin Zerrudo: And even though it’s not always clear what God is trying to tell us at any given moment, our trust in Him remains unwavering, no matter what.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

I always exhaust and pressure myself to do things beyond my limits, which sometimes leads me to anxiety. In fact, I did wish that God would just write His will on the wall, or speak to me with an audible voice for me to know which path to take to avoid failures. But I know God rarely chooses to make His will for my life that obvious. He wants us to be persistent in seeking His guidance, and to always trust in the promise He bestowed. I’m truly thankful that He helped me to always understand His will and obey with all my heart. Now, I overcome the fear of taking risks and the fear of failing because I know God loves me. And His love won’t lead me astray.

Martin Zerrudo: Joining us now is a show favorite of ours, minister of the gospel, Brother Donald Pinnock. Brother Donald, how are you today?

Bro. Donald: I’m not too bad, Brother Martin, it’s good to hear from you.

Martin Zerrudo: Happy to have you on today. Brother Donald, you know, as we talk about self-reflection and the struggles that people go through, what struggles in life have you gone through? And why didn’t those struggles break you?

Bro. Donald: Well, what immediately comes to mind, Brother Martin, is when I left Canada to pursue my studies in the ministry there in the Philippines in 1992. Of course, it was very, very difficult to leave behind my parents who, of course, were getting on in age, when it comes to my siblings, and also my close friends. Even when it comes to my place of employment. And not only that, having to adjust to a culture that was very foreign to me, other people there, this just made the situation extremely hard.

Of course, before I left, I tried to prepare myself as best as I could. But when you’re actually there, and feeling like a total stranger and alien to everyone and everything, emotionally, it was very, very taxing. But I truly believe that God wanted me to be there. And that belief acted as a catalyst for me, in order for me to immerse myself in the culture. And also when it came to my studies.

Martin Zerrudo: Now, looking back on it many years removed from that situation, do you feel like maybe your apprehension was … was it an overreaction, an underreaction, or was what you expected exactly what ended up happening?

Bro. Donald: Well, fortunately, before I began my studies in 1992, I did visit the Philippines in 1990. It was just for a few weeks and I was able to visit my wife’s family there. And again, that was my first trip to the Philippines. And there, we can say there was a bit of a culture shock when it comes to the stark reality of how many people were really struggling there, when it came to the economy and when it comes to other living conditions for so many. So in truth, that initial visit there to the Philippines, it kind of helped, kind of helped. But when it came to going there in 1992, and to be there for the next five years, well, that’s all the more that, you know, reality hit me. So my apprehension, I believe, was in a way, an attempt to brace myself. But when I was actually there, knowing that I had left my family and my friends and everything else there in North America to pursue my studies, you know, being human, of course, it was very difficult, extremely difficult.

Martin Zerrudo: Right. And you know, that difficulty, perhaps they didn’t go into ministry but when you know, after hearing those clips, it shows that members of the Church Of Christ are not immune to the struggles in life. Even when they pursue their dreams, they’re not immune to those challenges. So what makes us all the more resilient to those struggles?

Bro. Donald: Well, the same reason why I was able to overcome my personal struggles then when I was beginning my studies and until now, when different kinds of challenges come in different forms. Being members of the Church Of Christ, we are resilient, not because of our own ability, but rather because we place our hope and trust in God. We trust that He will give us the strength, the courage, the guidance, in order for us to overcome whatever we may encounter in life.

In fact, it’s no surprise because God has made and fulfilled such promises to His people in the past, as we can read here in Isaiah 40:28-31:

Don’t you know? Haven’t you heard? The LORD is the everlasting God; he created all the world. He never grows tired or weary. No one understands his thoughts. He strengthens those who are weak and tired. Even those who are young grow weak; young people can fall exhausted. But those who trust in the LORD for help will find their strength renewed. They will rise on wings like eagles; they will run and not get weary; they will walk and not grow weak.

[Isaiah 40:28-31 Today’s English Version]

As this Bible citation reminds us, it’s not just the old but even the young who can grow weak and feel exhausted, especially considering the current time that we are living in. But God has promised to strengthen His people who place their hope and their trust in Him. In fact, God further encourages us with a following declaration written in Isaiah 41:10:

Fear not [there is nothing to fear], for I am with you; do not look around you in terror and be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen and harden you to difficulties, yes, I will help you; yes, I will hold you up and retain you with My [victorious] right hand of rightness and justice.

[Isaiah 41:10 Amplified Bible]

That is why even though we encounter virtually the same struggles, the same pains, the same hardships as other people, Church Of Christ members rely, depend, and in fact, we can say lean on and fully believe in God’s promises to us, His people. This is what makes us so resilient, so that even if we may feel down in the dumps, when a serious problem comes upon us, we’re able to get back up on our feet.

And no surprise because this was also what befell the apostles in their time. As we can read in II Corinthians 4:8-9:

We are pressed on every side by troubles, but not crushed and broken. We are perplexed because we don’t know why things happen as they do, but we don’t give up and quit. We are hunted down, but God never abandons us. We get knocked down, but we get up again and keep going.

[II Corinthians 4:8-9 Living Bible]

The apostles were not spared from experiencing severe troubles in life as we can glean from this citation. But again, because they placed their hope and their trust in God, every time they were knocked down, they were able to get up again. Because God will never abandon His loyal and faithful servants. Because of this, God’s many acts of kindness, they should be reflected upon from time to time by His people.

Martin Zerrudo: That’s amazing that there are so many verses that point to that process of reflection and introspection and how that all weaves into our faith. What would you say, Brother Donald, is the purpose for self-reflection? And what does it ultimately mean for members of the Church Of Christ?

Bro. Donald: You know, Brother Martin, self-reflection gives us the precious opportunity to consider the condition of our life. To meditate on perhaps the mistakes that we have made when it comes to our judgment calls, and how we can improve for the future. And being members of the Church, there’s an added layer of contemplation, and that is to consider the condition of our relationship with God, and how we have reacted when immense problems have risen up in our life. That is why the Bible recommends the following:

When life is heavy and hard to take, go off by yourself. Enter the silence. Bow in prayer. Don’t ask questions: Wait for hope to appear. Don’t run from trouble. Take it full-face. The “worst” is never the worst. Why? Because the Master won’t ever walk out and fail to return. If he works severely, he also works tenderly. His stockpiles of loyal love are immense. He takes no pleasure in making life hard, in throwing roadblocks in the way: … GOD proves to be good to the man who passionately waits, to the woman who diligently seeks. It’s a good thing to quietly hope, quietly hope for help from GOD.

[Lamentations 3:28-33, 25-26 The Message]

We know that all people are bound to experience troubles in life. In fact, we can read that in Job 5:7. Those whom God recognizes however as His people, they have a distinct advantage when it comes to overcoming the troubles and tribulations of life. And even though sometimes we may feel that life is indeed heavy and hard to take, we should never be discouraged nor lose hope. What we should do is, as the Bible teaches, bow in prayer, and wait for hope to appear. The Bible assures us that it’s a good thing to hope for help from God, and that we’ll not be disappointed because God proves to be good to His people who wait patiently for Him. Especially at these times, Brother Martin, as you know, where because of this pandemic, the life of virtually all people around the world has been affected adversely. And there is indeed an increase of worry, anxiety and other mental problems.

However, when it comes to again, those whom the Lord our God recognizes as His people, He has promised to help them. So it is incumbent upon the people of God to place their hope and trust in Him. And one way we can do this is to believe in the power of prayer, communicating with our Father in heaven, meditating upon our life and our situation, taking those periods of self-reflection, in order for us to avail of God’s promises for us to continue to live a safe and productive life and most especially when it comes to remaining in close relationship with our Almighty God.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much, Brother Donald, those verses were so very inspirational and the way that you were able to weave them into not only past struggles that maybe some of us have gone through, but the current struggles that are happening right now. We want to thank you so much, Brother Donald, for being on our show again today.

Bro. Donald: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Brother Martin.

Martin Zerrudo: Absolutely. We always look forward to having you on the show. And for our listeners, please continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & Soul. That’s it from us today. Hope we were able to help, hope you were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take a few moments to reflect and be thankful because you’re not in this alone. Take care.

Say Something Nice

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Find out why saying something nice can have the power to change the course of someone’s life.

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Say Something Nice

[Lead In]

Martin Zerrudo: When was the last time someone said something nice to you? When was the last time you said something nice to someone else? What did they say? How did it make you feel? Is it something that happens often? Or maybe not often enough? Can a few simple words of kindness actually change people’s lives?

Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation.

[Show open]

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

Not to be cheesy, but thanks for being the best brother that I could ask for.

Love you mom and dad!

My boy best friend. I love you, dude. I’m grateful for you. Even though I don’t show it. Thank you for introducing me to my wife, and being my oldest friend.

[Music Transition]

Martin Zerrudo: Hey, everyone, hope you’re all doing well and are safe and healthy at home. We’re going to start off with a recent study that shows that if you say something nice to someone, you can instantaneously improve their way of life.

Here’s what the National Institute of Physiological Sciences in Japan has to say:

“Research shows receiving a compliment can enhance performance, social interaction, positivity in relationships, and increase general happiness. Not bad for something that’s completely free and takes literally seconds to do. Now with all those benefits and with such little effort involved, you would think complimenting someone or having a good thing to say about someone should happen a little bit more often”

But does it? Well. Here’s an article from the Huffington Post with their take on it:

“With all the angst and frustration, a kind word could be the difference between holding on and giving up. Yet, society glamorizes ‘Mean Girls’ and bullying culture. From celebrities to athletes to our school children, we blame the victims of bullying for not standing up. And we incentivize bullies for showing strength. We shamed those that have less or cannot keep up with the Joneses.”

And if you couple that with a pandemic, where studies show 1 in 3 people right now are suffering from depression or anxiety as a direct result of COVID-19, it’s a pretty bleak world out there, which is why we wanted to highlight a social media post we created back in January of 2020, right before this all started. We asked you, our audience, to show a little bit of love. To surprise someone by saying something nice about them and tagging them in the comments. We thought the power of a kind word was something they could really use because according to becomingminimalist.com:

“a kind word can speak power to someone’s life. It can inspire, it can motivate, and it can provide strength to someone who can’t find it within themselves.”

And that’s exactly what you all did. From random nice things to meaningful words from the heart. Here’s what you had to say.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

Thank you for always listening to me when I need someone to vent to. I really admire everything you do for everyone around you. But especially our District. Whenever I start getting lazy, you really are my inspiration to be better.

Thanks for being my older sister and my role model. Even when I get on your last nerve, you still tolerate me. So that’s nice. You were the one who taught me how to be active and strong through example, and you’re the one whom I know I can confide in when I’m lost. Because I’m always lost. Sorry about that.

My best friend, you stayed with me during my ups and downs, and you’re truly an amazing friend to talk to. You were always there when I had no one to talk to until this day. I pray that we get to see each other someday and talk about the craziest things from the distance between California and Guam. Thank you for everything, Bestie. Love you.

I respect you so much for being an organist. I know it’s not easy, squeezing in personal organ practice time with your busy schedule. Seeing you practice super early in the morning and late night. Even if you only get a few hours of sleep is a dedication I very much respect. You inspire me to want to do the same. The love you feel when you play is evident. And I hope to feel that too someday.

You always wowed me with your growth as a woman. Your heart is pure and you have the spirit of a warrior. I’m proud to be your sister. Be the wise and kind woman that you ought to be because that will help you withstand every trial that you will face and battles that you have to face alone. But keep in mind, I’m always cheering for you.

Martin Zerrudo: A kind word can even be used to express and even share our faith.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

Your ever growing faith gives me strength, especially now that I’m feeling weaker. You rekindle the fire in me to keep going. I appreciate your kindness, care and reminders to me. And I pray that God blesses you in every way for a bright future that allows you to serve Him without hindrances.

Martin Zerrudo: Joining us now is Bro. Donald Pinnock, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. Hello, Bro. Donald.

Bro. Donald: Hello, Bro. Martin, and thank you for the invitation.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much for joining us, Bro. Donald, I want to start off by saying something nice about you. Thank you for always being humble yet strong. I remember as a young teen, you were our minister in the local congregation of Scarborough, and you walked with such poise and grace, but you never drew attention to yourself. And I thought, wow, he’s so, he’s so humble. But when it came to preaching and being a good leader to us spiritually, it was always so very inspiring and strong. And so I just wanted to say thank you for always being so humble, yet strong, as a spiritual leader in the Church Of Christ.

Bro. Donald: Well, thank you for saying that Bro. Martin. I don’t really have a response to that. I can’t say, you know, perhaps you were delusional when you’re younger. But yet, in fact, since this episode is about kind words, well, you started it off on the right track by saying what you just said. In turn, what can I say? I am very, very happy to know you, somebody who’s extremely talented, and thinks outside the box, I don’t know if you’ve ever thought inside the box.

Martin Zerrudo: Uh, no.

Bro. Donald: Yes, really, really glad to know you, as someone who I can have very, very entertaining conversations with, and at the same time learn from because age is not proof that one is wise. One can always learn from others. As I say, nobody knows everything. But everybody knows something. So if you’re ready to listen, you can learn from another and I’m very glad to learn from you.

Martin Zerrudo: Thank you so much, Bro. Donald. Now speaking of saying something nice. Has anyone said something to you that really positively affected your way of life?

Bro. Donald: Definitely. An incident comes to mind. And this happened many, many years in fact, decades ago, when I was going through a very, very rough patch in life. In fact, my life in ways was going in the wrong direction. And that’s when a friend of a friend noticed this. Noticed that I was also feeling down in the doldrums. And she took the time to talk to me. And in fact, talking to her turned out to be one of the most pivotal conversations I’ve ever had in my entire life. It virtually lit a fire within me and changed the direction of the course of my life.

Just the positivity, the encouragement, and “you can do it” comments. It boosted me so much that when it comes to the effects of those kind but inspiring words that were spoken with so much love and also sincerity, well, the effects of those words, they continue to reverberate even until my present day.

Martin Zerrudo: And why are words so powerful in affecting people?

Bro. Donald: You know, the proper words at the right time can invoke an emotional response that is for the betterment of the listener. But it’s not just the words per se, but also the feeling, the sentiment, the emotion behind those words. In fact, the Bible teaches this in Ephesians 4:29:

Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

[Ephesians 4:29 New International Version]

You mentioned earlier, Bro. Martin, that so many people are lacking that human touch, not just physically but also emotionally. Since especially now they’re being deprived of social interaction due to the lockdown, stay-at-home protocols being implemented by government bodies all around the world. Virtual or digital interaction, it can satisfy a segment or portion of that emotional need, but never ever to the level of when you’re actually in the same physical space with another. But even so, sincere words whether spoken face to face with an individual or online using social media platforms, those sincere words are at a premium at this time, so many people need to feel loved. And this is why the Church Of Christ members all throughout the world, they’re reaching out not only to their fellow brethren but to everyone around them.

Martin Zerrudo: Now, what words should we turn to when we feel this way? You know, there’s that question as well of, of connection and authenticity. You may see it and you may hear it on social media online. But what if you don’t know those people? What if you don’t believe what they’re saying? What if it’s hard for you to take the sincerity from it? Where should we turn to in those times of trial?

Bro. Donald: Well, again, those sincere and affectionate words, they are important to combat feelings of loneliness, and if one is getting down or desperate. However, when one is really going through severe trials in life, there are no better words than those written in the Bible. And a very good example of this is mentioned by the Lord Jesus Christ recorded here in John 16:33:

I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world. [I have deprived it of power to harm you and have conquered it for you.]

[John 16:33 Amplified Bible]

This is what the members of the Church Of Christ have been reminded of, that through our Lord Jesus Christ, they may have peace and confidence in the midst of those fiery difficulties, of those trials, of those frustrations. That is a really heartwarming promise, considering the world which we are now living in.

Martin Zerrudo: And what words would you have for our audience, Bro. Donald? You know, we have listeners all over the world who could use a little bit of inspiration, a little bit of sincere, authentic kindness. What would you say to them?

Bro. Donald: Well, regardless of who you are, or where you may be living, whether you’re married, or you’re living alone, be you young or old, we only have the sincerest of words and thoughts for all of you. We pray that you’re going to be kept safe from the ravages of this pandemic, that you are going to remain confident, positively minded, you’re going to remain jovial in the midst of all of this chaos. So, our dear listeners, keep on smiling, because someone does love you. The Church Of Christ members love one another, and they also love their neighbors. The very reason why, in expression of our love, we continue to extend that invitation for all of you to know why we draw strength and encouragement from the words of God that we believe in and live by. So do not despair, dear friends, even though yes, since the beginning of 2020 until now, life has been extremely difficult, extremely challenging. And even though we hear of vaccines being dispersed, at the same time, when it comes to a return to some level of normalcy that we enjoyed before the outbreak of this pandemic, it could still be a long way off.

But let’s be thankful for what we have, and not be so down when it comes to what we don’t have. Find time to smile, find time for yourself, and find time for others. That as we receive kind words, then in turn, we can also express kind words to those around us. And virtually together we can get through this safely. And most especially for us, members of the Church Of Christ, we can continue to give praise to our Creator.

Martin Zerrudo: I want to thank you so much for joining us, Bro. Donald. And again to our listeners, I just want to echo what Bro. Donald said, you know, stay hopeful. We’re in this together. Though we may be physically distant, we remain spiritually united. And for those who are not members of the Church Of Christ, who may be listening and this podcast was shared with you, the most effective and sincere and most powerful way we could express our words to be of help to you positively is to just learn more about the Church Of Christ. And like Bro. Donald said, we guarantee it is something that will change your life. And so we want to thank you all for joining us.

Please continue to follow us on our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & Soul. That’s it from us today. We hope we were able to help, we hope we were able to connect and we hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all of your heart and soul. Oh, and say something nice to someone today. They just might need it. Take care.

Dear Future Husband, Future Wife

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What if you could speak to your future husband or wife? What would you say? What kind of message would you leave for them?

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Dear Future Husband, Dear Future Wife

[Lead In]

Martin Zerrudo: Have you ever wished you owned a time machine? To be able to fast forward into the future to see what God has in store? And when it comes to love, have you ever wondered when you would meet the one you’re going to get married to? Wouldn’t you want to know right now?

Well, since we don’t have a time machine, Heart & Soul has the next best thing. What if you could write a love letter, to your future husband or wife?

Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation.

[Show open]

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

Dear future wife, I’ll do the dishes AND the laundry.

Dear future husband, our future home will stay between 68 and 72 degrees at all times.

Dear future wife, whoever you are, wherever you are, we will meet someday.

[Music Transition]

Martin: Back in August 2019, on Instagram at @incmedianews using #heartandsoulconversations we asked our audience to write a short letter, message, or comment to their future wife or husband. Something for their future partner to look back at and read to see just how long they’ve been praying and thinking about them. We had thousands of replies, ranging from those wondering “God, will I ever get married?” to “I trust God’s perfect timing.” We even had a couple of apologies too.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

Dear future wife. First of all I would like to apologize. I’m sorry it took so long for me to find you. Sorry I took a detour in my life. But the one thing I’m not sorry about is meeting you and falling in love with you every single day of my life. I may or may not know who you are, but I do know that you will always have a place in my heart and that I will love and cherish you regardless of any trials and hardships that come our way. May we both go on many adventures, and experience new things together. But more importantly, may we always continue to perform our duties and serve the Lord together as one……

[Music Transition]

Waiting for the right Christian man to come along is something many of our female listeners are doing right now. But even though they’re waiting, they’re not all in any rush.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

Dear future husband, hi! I hope you won’t appear soon, I haven’t graduated yet, I want to make Ma & Pa proud, my dream is to study for my masters and if possible for my doctorate, so take your time, there’s no rush, I know you’ll arrive in God’s perfect time.

Martin: And even if some are eager to find the right Christian man soon, their thoughts remain hopeful, and focused on an even greater purpose.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

To my future husband, I might be so lost right now, but I know I’ll find my way to you, through our God. Wherever you are, I hope you are staying safe and healthy! I can’t wait for the day when I’ll be able to finally meet you. I look forward to come home to you, everyday. For now, let us keep ourselves busy and occupied doing works for our Almighty Father.

Martin: Some of our male listeners even asked for a little patience, while they continued trusting in God for a wife.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

Dear Future Wife: I have a message for you… I know you’re out there. Somewhere. I know you’re waiting for me to find you. But please, I beg you. Be patient. Each day that passes brings me closer and closer to you. I’m working on myself. I want to be that knight in shining armor for you. So I’m working on being more active in the Church than I’ve ever been. I’m working on performing my duties to a higher level. Because it’s the armor of God I want to have on for you. I pray that you can wait for me. I pray for your happiness. I pray for you every day. I pray you’ll be the one that inspires me to be stronger. I pray that you continue to be active in the Church. Because I know that God won’t let us truly see each other until we are both ready.

I can’t promise you that we’ll have a perfect relationship but what I can promise is that I will love you every single day of my life.

I know i’m not perfect and I have a couple of flaws, but I know you will accept me wholeheartedly.

I have a lot of things to say to you, my future wife, but I prefer to say it to you personally, whoever you are.

You know our Almighty God knows best, and I trust in His timing. You’ll be worth the wait.

Martin: Joining us now is Bro. Donald Pinnock, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. Hello Brother Donald!

Bro. Donald: Hello, Bro. Martin! How are you?

Martin: I’m good. Thank you so much for joining us. Now when you were younger, did you ever imagine the kind of wife you would end up with? How did you meet your wife and what can you say after all these years, on the journey you’ve gone on together?

Bro. Donald: Hello to all of our listeners. And to answer your first question, yes, when I was younger, like many other people I was wondering where out there in the world was Mrs. Right for me. What would she look like? Where would we meet? And how could I be sure that she was the one? All of these and other questions entertained my thoughts especially when I started to enter adulthood.

Then, eventually in 1984, I met Lyda. I never imagined that she would become my wife a few years later. In fact, she was very active when it comes to her Church activities, most especially when it came to inviting people to Church activities, primarily when it comes to the worship services and Bible Studies. And she did exactly for me; she invited me to attend a worship service, which I did. I kept on going because it was interesting and at that time in my life I was really looking for answers.

Eventually I underwent Bible Studies and all thanks be to God, I eventually become a baptized member of the Church. However, during all that time, when it came to myself and Lyda, we didn’t share any romantic feelings for one another. But, as the passage of time, or as we went through the passage of time, we got to know each other better, and we started to develop and appreciate a deeper understanding, until we reached the point when we realized that it was actually God, God was the one who was bringing us together. So because of this we got married in December, 1986. For many years before then, I had a mental image and assessment of whom I thought would be the wife for me. But instead, I eventually discovered that God knew who was best for me, just as what the Bible teaches in Proverbs 19:14:

Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD.

[Proverbs 19:14 New International Version]

Bro. Donald: And when we say prudent, sensible, and understanding wife a suitable spouse. And that is exactly how I can describe Lyda. She understands me. She is very helpful. And of course she is caring and she’s also loving. So when it comes to single adults this is something that we should understand; that when it comes the soulmate that we may be looking for, when we’re looking for that significant other, we can’t base it just on physical looks. We can’t base it on how we think that person is. We have to really know them but at the same time we need to let the Lord our God act on our behalf. God is the one who will help one or another to find their significant other.

Martin: That’s such a wonderful story Brother Donald. And you know, in the process of you growing up, becoming a young adult, did you ever feel impatient like you wanted that special someone to come sooner? Were you someone who was like, oh, when when she comes, she comes and I’m not in any rush?

Bro. Donald: Oh, in truth, as I entered into adulthood, of course, the search was on in ways it’s almost automatic. And I was looking for someone significant. Of course, I would meet certain individuals. But that spark, we can say that chemistry wasn’t quite there. So even though it may be fleeting, or momentarily, it wasn’t something that was going to last it didn’t fill that certain void within me. You know, the search went on.

Martin: Now what advantage Brother Donald do members of the Church Of Christ have one trusting God in their singleness or single life and how does it help them feel less alone? Because for those single right now who might be listening, that’s why there’s so much urgency, is because they feel alone. They feel like they need to fill that void as soon as possible. And that’s why they need to find someone as soon as possible.

Bro. Donald: Yes, well as being members of the Church Of Christ, what is very, very important, in fact, it’s absolutely critical is for one to place their hope and their trust, and we’re talking about wholehearted hope and trust in God. Because God makes known the reason why we should do so in Jeremiah 29:11:

For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

[Jeremiah 29:11 New International Version]

Bro. Donald: It’s quite evident, then that we should trust the Lord our God to bless us in every stage of our life, whether it be in our adolescence, our teenage years, or when we become adults, because God knows what is best for us at any given point. So some may be adults, and they’re enjoying being single, they’re not in a rush to get married, while others may be seeking earnestly that significant other in their life. When it comes to such individuals, they shouldn’t get anxious, nor envious of their peers, if they see them peeling off and getting romantically involved with someone while they remain playing the virtual waiting game. Because while waiting for the time to come, that they may meet, Mr. or Mrs. Right, and then enter into married life with the spouse that God blesses them with, or they should still continue to trust in God. And in fact, let’s have faith in what the Bible says in Psalms 37:4-5:

Seek your happiness in the LORD, and he will give you your heart’s desire. Give yourself to the Lord trusting Him and He will help you.

[Psalms 37:4-5 Today’s English Version]

Bro. Donald: Again, the key here, I believe Brother Martin, is for one to really place their hope and trust in God, because God knows what’s best, it’s very difficult than it could be a grave mistake to take matters in our own hands in the sense that we meet somebody and without even allowing time to build up a relationship or to get to know that individual, we just rush headlong into marriage. And sad to say it has happened, that there are those who we read about it oftentimes in the news. Were there those who believe that they had chemistry, but that chemistry was just in one aspect of their relationship. And after a short passage of time, they regret their mistakes and they separate ways. Well, this should not be because we also uphold what the Bible teaches about marriage. The Bible teaches that we are bound together by the laws of God, and that is a lifetime bind. So marriage in itself is a lifetime commitment. That is why we should trust God through our prayers, for Him to allow us to meet that individual eventually, that will be right for us.

Martin: And when you mentioned rushing headlong into commitments, and lifelong promises, like marriage, it all the more points to the importance of timing. So what does the Scriptures say about God’s timing?

Bro. Donald: Well, nobody can come close. God knows when a perfect time he strikes on our behalf. And the Bible even teaches that in I Peter 5:6-7:

Therefore, humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time casting all your care upon him, for he cares for you.

[I Peter 5:6-7 New King James Version]

Bro. Donald: Please notice, the Bible teaches that God is going to exalt us, He’s going to bless us, He is going to raise us up in due time or at the proper time. And because of this, it is stated that we should cast all our care upon Him, all of our concerns, including the hope of meeting that significant other through prayer, because the Lord our God, He’s going to manifest his care and love for us.

Martin: So as we wait for God’s correct and perfect timing, we noticed that a lot of the comments from our listeners was that they’re okay with waiting for God’s time. They’re okay with knowing that he or she will come when the moment is right. And so why are so many members of the Church Of Christ happy to remain focused on improving and working on their duties and their spiritual lives first?

Bro. Donald: Well, it’s because then we can read in 1 Corinthians 15:58, that when one is busy in serving God, it’s for their betterment. In fact, let’s read the citation.

So then, my dear friends, stand firm and steady. keep busy always in your work for the Lord. Since you know that nothing you do in the Lord service is ever useless.

[1 Corinthians 15:58 Today’s English Version]

Bro. Donald: Nothing we do in the Lord service is ever useless meaning to say everything we do in the Lord service is useful or beneficial. All the more we will receive the blessings of God in this life and in the life to come. So that’s why when it comes to many members of the Church, including the young adults, not just the adolescence, they remain fervent when it comes to their worship service, when it comes to helping others to find meaning to the life and existence by inviting them to Church activities, the members of the Church Of Christ, they busy themselves. And this is good in the sight of God.

And not only that, if we consider it on a human level, instead of just sitting in a corner, and be wailing the fact that we haven’t met yet, our future spouse, if we consider what that will do to a person emotionally is it not more that they will become despondent, they’ll feel down? But at the same time, if one is busy, then we have less time to worry about our situation, we won’t be so so anxious, and again, we will not be envious of our close friends or our peers whom we see are getting married.

One thing that we’d like to mention to all the young adults inside the Church is that the Lord our God has made us as when we say perfect in the sense that we are complete. We do not need another individual to make our life more significant or to make us complete. That individual may be supplemental, but when it comes to us personally, well the Lord our God has made us just as He wants us to be. That is why again, it is extremely important that we have a positive outlook on our life, we place our confidence in the Lord our God so that we can enjoy our journey through this word or through this life, knowing that through our compliance with the teachings of God, everything is going to go well for us, we can be confident of this, because this is also the assurance the Bible gives in 1 Samuel 12:14:

All will go well with you. If you honor the Lord your God, serve him, listen to him, and obey his commands. And if you and your king follow him,

[1 Samuel 12:14]

Martin: Thank you so much for that Brother Donald. You know, as I listened to the spiritual guidance that you’re providing through the Scriptures, you know, reminds me of when I was in my early 20s, I used to keep a journal and I would write in those moments where I, you know, felt kind of down and alone and was wondering when I would meet the one who was meant to be with. And as I was writing the script for this episode, I found an entry where I was asking, you know, “what am I going to find you? Where are we going to meet? And how long do I have to wait?” And it makes me smile reading that because even though in those moments when I was younger, I thought I had no idea where when or how you’re right that that I never lost confidence that so long as I stayed true to my faith and to my duties and always putting my focus and trust in God that she would arrive eventually. And she did. Praise be to God.

Bro. Donald: Yeah, Praise be to God. Again, we’d like to mention how we shouldn’t become fraught with worry or anxiety as we get older, and we are not yet married. Because what’s most important is our service to God, the ultimate goal. And the aim of every member of the Church is of course, salvation. And on the road to salvation, there are sacrifices, and there are difficulties. There’s a lot of events that we have to endure in order to attain salvation. So for some members of the Church, they don’t mind being by themselves, in the sense that they don’t have a spouse as they continue in their sojourn.

Others may be looking for a spouse, but again, the Lord our God knows what is best. We should not, you know, just jump and grab at something that may pass us by, and then afterwards totally regret our decision, knowing full well that again, being members of the Church, we abide by the teachings of the Bible, that marriage, again, is a lifetime commitment. We don’t want to make that mistake. That is why it is incumbent upon us to place all our hope and trust in God. God knows when the time is. God knows who that individual should be. And if we have to patiently wait. And while patiently waiting, we remain performing our duties at serving God well again we will be blessed.

Martin: Thank you so much for that Brother Donald, one last question before we end this episode. You’re a very proud and happy father and now you’re also a proud and very happy grandfather. When little Hezekiah gets a little bit older and he starts you know, reaching that stage in his life where he’s thinking about finding the one, what kind of message would you give him? What kind of advice would you pass to your grandson?

Bro. Donald: I would tell Kiah as I call him, to conduct his devotional prayer, when it comes to what will be included in the prayer that God is going to allow him to meet an individual that is going to be someone who not only loves him, and that he in turn loves, but also will be supportive of him when it comes to the faith. That together with God be willing their children, they can remain active in honoring and praising, and also in serving our Father in heaven. That before he gets married, he should be very careful. He does not want the Lord God’s ire or anger to be inflicted upon him, because of the many temptations in this world, but rather to strive to live his life as a as a man of God, even though he may still be young, but a young man of God at that time, knowing full well that again, if he holds on to what God has promised to his chosen people, then he will be successful. And the Lord our God will plot the course of his life, that he can be of benefit when it comes to the Church, that personally he will also be rewarded. And he along with his family, again, they will be blessed

Martin: Well we want to thank you so much for joining us, Brother Donald, thank you so much to our listeners. We want to continue this conversation so please follow us using our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & Soul. That’s it from us today. Hope we were able to help, hope we were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time, ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

3 Stories that Kept Me Hopeful in 2020

My relationship with the pandemic continues to evolve. I’m dealing with the ‘new normal’ better now, but it wasn’t always this way.

The pandemic forced us all to slow down and make time for activities that we may not have been able to tackle before. I still worked, but I found myself being more productive in different ways. During the first few weeks, I spent a lot of my free time learning how to cook, re-organizing and decluttering, trying at-home workouts on YouTube, and checking up on friends and family. If this was the new normal, I wanted to know all about it. And like a lot of people I know, I made the mistake of watching the news constantly.

Looking back on it now, I probably went overboard with the amount of news that I consumed.

I would listen to a news podcast right when I woke up and was glued to my Twitter news feed throughout the day. I watched live news updates like they were sporting events.

I shouldn’t have been surprised when I started to get affected by the heartbreaking personal stories of frontline workers and the rising number of COVID-19 cases all over the world. I became afraid and started to experience the debilitating effects of anxiety.

I started to obsess over how much danger we’re all in, including me and my family. My sister works as an ER nurse, and while she’s at risk of getting infected by COVID-19 everyday, we were fully aware that she could also pass it on to us. It became clear to us that we had to limit seeing one another if we wanted to keep our family safe.

Then, the pandemic and all of its complications hit closer to home. My grandmother got sick and was rushed to the hospital. Later, doctors confirmed that she was infected with COVID-19.

I thought about her 90th birthday earlier this year. Our extended family here in Toronto had a small, intimate dinner at my uncle’s house. She was surrounded by some of her children, her grandchildren, and her great grandchildren. That evening, I remember hoping that despite her condition—she had progressive dementia and mild Alzheimer’s—she would remember all of us celebrating this milestone with her, that she would be present enough to remember, even short intervals of that evening.

When I heard she was diagnosed with COVID-19, I hoped for the exact opposite. The hospital only allowed immediate family to visit, and visiting time was extremely limited. During her last days, my grandmother was, for the most part, alone.

Shortly after that, I developed insomnia.

I kept replaying the same thoughts in my head—life is so uncertain…we have so little control…grief looks different on different people.

I know it’s important to identify and understand how you’re feeling. Trust me, I get that. I’m the kind of person who processes her feelings through words—whether I’m writing about it or talking about it. And this involves sitting with those feelings and figuring out what I want to take away from them. But dwelling too much on my anxiety, fear, and grief threatened my ability to remain hopeful. I understand that now.

I’m absolutely aware that I can’t shut these feelings off completely, but I also know that I need to make an active decision to remain hopeful—always. I choose to hold on to what I’ve always known.

Thankfully, I still had the opportunity to attend worship services online.

I was still able to receive encouragement and guidance from the Bible.In our worship services in the Church Of Christ, we are always being taught the words of God. Something I truly needed to remain hopeful during this pandemic. Knowing that God’s love and mercy are there for me as one of His children, I don’t let myself get discouraged. I just keep on putting my trust in God no matter what.

I’m old enough to know that life is so uncertain. We’re all just doing our best, living with the times that we’re in. It would’ve been easier for me to dwell on the uncertainties, and to focus on the heartbreak that people, like myself, were going through. Those stories are at an all-time high these days.

But choosing to pay attention to stories that inspire and give us hope—that’s what’ll help us sleep at night.

So I paid attention. I looked for stories about people who are also struggling throughout this pandemic, but at the same time, have found hope in the circumstances that they’ve been given. I want to share my favourites with you, and I hope they help you as much as they’ve helped me.

Coping with COVID-19: Renjy Corpuz-Pineda Back in March, when everyone was trying to adjust to a new normal and coping with being in quarantine, Renjy and her husband learned that they had their own ‘new normal’ to prepare for as well. They found out that they were pregnant with their first child. Renjy’s story reminds us that even in the most uncertain times, God can still surprise us with so much joy.

Heart & Soul Surprises Listeners – Even though I knew this was happening, watching the surprised look on our listeners’ faces still made me smile. As part of the Make Kindness Contagious campaign, the Heart and Soul team reached out to some of our listeners to help them connect with the people they missed the most. You’ll laugh, you’ll cry, and you’ll also want to hop on a video call with your favourite person.

How To Overcome the Impact of Lockdown – Dr. Darwin Buyson, a clinical psychologist, shares practical tips on how to overcome cabin fever during lockdown. He also gives insight on why we experience cabin fever, and the coping mechanisms that we may fall into. But what I found really helpful was this simple reminder—we can’t rely on our own abilities, especially in the most challenging times. We can only trust in God and His limitless capacity to help us.

I live in Toronto, Canada and as I write this blog, Ontario’s Premiere just announced a second lockdown for our city. This is happening while winter season is just about to begin. Many of us are facing the possibility of spending months cut off from close friends and family.

And while we can’t control how this pandemic can further affect us and the people we love, we can choose what we allow to take space in our minds. We can choose what to focus on. And what I choose to focus on are the teachings and promises of God in the Bible, which we are taught inside the Church Of Christ. That is what helps me to stay hopeful, because I know that God always keeps His promises to His people. He will never abandon us.

Michelle Barreda is the fresh cup of coffee that you need in the morning, but can’t handle in the afternoon.

She’s a staff writer and producer at incmedia.org. Aside from writing, she geeks out about kickboxing, books, and music.

How To Overcome the Impact of Lockdown

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Learn how to overcome cabin fever and anxiety while in lockdown, shelter in place, or quarantine during the COVID-19 pandemic.

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How to Overcome the Impact of Lockdown

3:00 What is “cabin fever” or “going stir crazy”?

6:05 The loss of comfort and control in our lives

11:54 Why people panic bought toilet paper and hand sanitizer

16:21 What is “cabin fever” or “going stir crazy”

19:10 Tips on dealing with isolation, lockdown, or shelter in place

22:18 Why members of the Church Of Christ are more mentally prepared

28:40 Spiritual guidance

[Lead In]

Martin: The entire world has been in some form of lockdown or social isolation for the past 7-8 months. What started as a couple of weeks at home has now become a challenging mental adjustment to a seemingly unending life under quarantine and social distancing. This is our new normal. And despite some parts of the world starting to open up, the fear, anxiety, and worry of COVID-19, along with the mental impact of staying at home, linger. So how do we get through it?

Let’s have a Heart And Soul conversation.

[Show open]

Martin: Hello everyone, hope you’re all doing ok and are safe at home. Today, I’d like to discuss the impact living in lockdown has had on our mental health. For this, I was able to interview Dr. Darwin Buyson. Dr. Buyson is a clinical psychologist, and we had him last year on a panel discussion about Body Image. For this topic, we discussed the reasons why people struggle with staying at home, what cabin fever is, and what we can do to help ourselves navigate the uncertainty of living in quarantine during a pandemic. Afterwards minister of the gospel, Bro. Donald Pinnock, will join us to expand on what Dr. Darwin and I discussed.

[Music Transition]

Darwin: Hi, my name is Dr. Darwin Buyson and I’m calling in from Notting Hill London.

Martin: Hi, Dr. Darwin. Real quick can you just tell us in what field of medicine did you study and are practicing in currently?

Darwin: So I am a qualified clinical psychologist and I work in the field of psychosis. So I work with people who are having a first episode of psychosis.

Martin: Right. And can you tell us a little bit more about, in layman’s terms, what is psychosis? And how does that relate to the everyday life of people?

Darwin: So the main features of psychosis, which is a very serious mental health problem, is people who suffer from what we call delusional beliefs or believing things that aren’t necessarily true, driven by fear. Which is actually quite relevant today.

Martin: Right. Unfortunately, the fear of what’s happening right now and kind of making people question what’s happening around them, affecting them mentally, it’s affecting not just those who have psychosis but the whole world. Can you talk about just the general mental effects of being isolated at home can have on somebody? Are you seeing anything there in the UK where they’re growing concerns that the longer we’re in isolation, the more people are going to get this “ cabin fever”? Start getting a little stir crazy?

Darwin: Oh, yes yes. I think for the first couple of weeks people were, they were taking in their stride. It was all quite new. And people just got on with things and tried to do their best to adapt to this change. It’s that kind of emergency change, we can deal with this. But the longer it goes on, the more realization people have that this is not something that’s just going to end soon. We don’t know what’s going to happen. There’s a lot of uncertainty around.

Martin: Right.

Darwin: And human beings just don’t cope well with uncertainty. Our whole lives are designed to reduce uncertainty. Our nine to five working schedules, our shifts, our eating at particular times, going to bed at particular times. We like predictability. Now we’re in a situation where there is no predictability or there’s very little predictability. And all the frameworks that were there to provide some predictability are now gone. So people are not working or working from home. So that’s a huge struggle for people to implement their own kind of schedules or timetables.

Martin: Right, right. Because they’re not used to living life that way.

Darwin: No, it’s usually done for us.

Martin: Right, right. Can you speak a little bit about that? I’ve been reading articles and someone just talked about how we’ve just been so comfortable. But because we’ve become such creatures of comfort, where nothing really would prevent us from doing whatever we want. To now not being able to do anything really, outside of just getting essential goods. Can you talk a little bit about that? How maybe— is there some truth to that, that we were a little bit too comfortable? That because everything was done for us, not only our schedule, but just anything that we need—the convenience of anything and everything was out there and now most of that is gone.

Darwin: Yes, absolutely. I think that, to varying degrees, this kind of comfort gave us a sense of control.

Martin: Right.

Darwin: And again, it’s on the same lines as predictability. The feeling of being in control is quite reassuring. We were comfortable with knowing that we can do what we want when we want. But now this uncertainty has kind of thrown that idea of being in control out the window. And that’s causing a lot of fear, a lot of anxiety in people. And when we don’t know or when we’re not in control the usual first, first thing is we need to know. We need to find out what’s going on here.

Martin: Right.

Darwin: We need to get some feeling of certainty back. You see that in the behavior of people that you know, they’re constantly checking the news, they’re constantly checking social media, they need to know. Trying to grasp something that they can hold on to. But the reality is, no one really knows.

Martin: Right. I actually spoke to another doctor in California. He’s a GP (General Practitioner) and I asked him well, we don’t know when this is going to end. We don’t know how soon it’s going to get better, if it’s going to get better anytime soon. What have you been saying to your patients and he said, he tried to be honest with them. That the sooner we accept that we’re in a bad situation, the more we can move forward with that understanding that we can’t control that we’re in a bad situation. We just have to accept that it’s a bad situation and try and move forward.

Darwin: Absolutely. I couldn’t agree more with that. And that’s something, that concept of acceptance is very difficult. Because usually we’re now conditioned that if we don’t like something, we just do something about it. We change it. We don’t like being uncertain we’ll change. We don’t like the job that we’re in, we’ll find a new one. We don’t have (many choices) now.

Martin: Right. It’s like you don’t want to stay at home, I’ll just go out. Oh, you don’t like where you went there, I’ll go somewhere else next time. And now you don’t have (many) of those options.

Darwin: You don’t have (many) those options. So, it highlights or emphasizes what was probably already true is that we have very little control over our day to day life and how fragile our control is.

Martin: Right, right.

Darwin: But we’re so not used to accepting that.

Martin: Why do you think that is? Now that we’re all—we don’t have a choice, we have to accept that we have to be on lock down, what is that mental barrier? That is the kind of—I’m sure it’s different for everybody, but in general terms. Why is it hard for us to accept that right now is not a good situation, and that we don’t know when it’s going to get better.

Darwin: I think from a psychological perspective, I think what drives people to find it difficult to accept is because it’s easier to give yourself the idea that you can do something about it. And I’ll elaborate on that. For example, if we’re scared, we tend to worry. Yeah, worry, in that sense is a behavior. We’re scared, we worry. And we think when we ask people, why do they worry? A lot of them answer well, because I want to be prepared.

Martin: Right.

Darwin: I want to know what I might need to do if what I’m worrying about happens, if the worst case scenario happens. That’s reasonable, but the unintended consequences by worrying about the worst case scenario, you make yourself feel anxious.

Martin: Right

Darwin: The more anxious you become, the more you feel you need to worry. And you end up worrying, thinking, checking, reassuring yourself that everything will be okay. When actually, it’s not okay. The situation is unpredictable, but we keep doing things to escalate our anxiety. And anxiety is the driver of irrational behavior. I’m sure most of us can relate to the scary movie example. After having watched a scary movie, we feel scared, we feel anxious for a short time afterwards.

Martin: Yeah.

Darwin: What do we do, when we go into the bathroom after having watched a scary movie?

Martin: Run in and run out as fast as you can.

Darwin: Exactly. We don’t look into the mirror, we turn the lights on, we maybe asked someone to come with us.

Martin: Yeah.

Darwin: But we know, if you ask them, if you ask anybody, they don’t believe that something bad is going to happen. But what’s driving that behavior? It’s fear. Fear makes us irrational. As soon as we realize that it’s fear that’s driving our behavior and then stop that fear driven behavior, the sooner we can get to that point of acceptance. Actually, you know what, me turning this light on, isn’t going to change anything. Me, worrying isn’t going to change anything. I’m just going to stop worrying.

Martin: So, you just made me realize something. This is amazing. So actually, those who went out and panic bought a whole bunch of toilet paper and disinfectant was a method of them finding reassurance that if I have a stockpile of toilet paper, then I’m reassured that everything is going to be okay. When it really had no direct correlation to when this pandemic was going to end.

Darwin: Absolutely. It’s all to relieve the feeling of anxiety in the short term.

Martin: Wow.

Darwin: And that’s essentially the pattern that we tend to fall into. And what’s really interesting is that it’s now no longer just the people suffering from mental illness that are experiencing this. We’re all fear driven. Now, our behavior to varying degrees is fear driven, and we’re doing irrational things.

Martin: Right.

Darwin: We’re buying more than we need. We’re checking the news more than we usually do. Some of us are believing conspiracy theories about where this virus has come from.

Martin: And even like if there was an intention or like a malicious purpose as to why it even started in the first place.

Darwin: Absolutely. Yeah. And this is all well—for me, one of the main reasons for this is it’s this need to know. It comes back to this dealing with uncertainty. Well, yeah, this came from China. Yeah, that’s the explanation. Well now I know, that’s better than not knowing.

Martin: Right.

Darwin: Because not knowing is more anxiety provoking, and we don’t like to feel anxiety. We don’t like to feel not in control.

Martin: And I guess because there’s so much uncertainty as to when there’s going to be a vaccine, how long the supplies are going to last, the amount of cases, the amount of deaths. Then people start, especially on social media, gravitating towards conspiracy theories of those who are willing to give these answers, whether or not they’re factual or based off of any kind of science. It’s more reassuring for them to say, well, that person said it on Facebook, or that person posted it, so that must be what’s happening.

Darwin: Yeah. Even if people don’t really believe it. It’s very powerful. This anxiety relief. It’s a bit like a drug.

Martin: Regardless of what form that relief takes, so long as they get that relief.

Darwin: As long as they get that relief. We really don’t like feeling anxious. We’re actually hardwired to do that. Our brains release neuro chemicals, adrenaline, and it drives us physically to look for threat and to try and eradicate it. And the counterbalance to that is stepping back and thinking. And when we’re anxious we don’t think in a wider sense. We’re very narrow focused when we’re anxious. It’s like being in a jungle. You hear at night on your own, you hear a rustling in the bushes. You’re not going to listen out the background noise for the jungle, your whole focus and your attention will be where that noise come from.

Martin: Right. Is it a monster out my window?

Darwin: Yes, exactly.

Martin: Can you explain to those who are listening what exactly is “cabin fever” or going stir crazy? What is that and how is that in relation to what we’re going through right now?

Darwin: Ordinarily we have these natural breaks from our thought process. We very rarely do we spend hours and hours and hours thinking about all our worries because we have natural breaks. We go to work. We go for a walk outside. We have these natural breaks. But if you’re confined for an extended period of time in isolation, there are no checks or balances on your thinking. And you just have this ongoing kind of obsession or ongoing preoccupation with your worry. And that has a huge impact on how your body functions and how your mind functions. You then find it very difficult to sleep. You become sleep deprived. You then when you’re sleep deprived, your thinking becomes even less rational. Your mood shifts even more erratically. You become impulsive. Your appetite goes. You’re no longer having enough nutrition. And it all kind of combines in this perfect storm where you then just kind of implode and you just don’t function rationally. In the past that was used as a form of torture.

Martin: Isolation or solitary confinement in the prison is a method of punishment to criminals where they’re confined to a small space and they can’t go anywhere.

Darwin: Absolutely, yeah. And without any sort of external stimulation or breaks from your own thought process, add some sleep deprivation into that.

Martin: On top of a pandemic. On top of not knowing when this is all going to end.

Darwin: So yeah, in very extreme situations, people will just literally drive themselves mad. Stir-crazy.

Martin: So what are some common tips for our listeners? I’ve interviewed maybe ten or fifteen people and one of the things that they said their families or friends are going through is that they want to go outside. They want to be able to see their friends. They know that we have to social distance, that we have to remain in lockdown. But there’s that itch that I need to go outside. I need to be outside of the environment of my home physically and the environment of my thoughts mentally, like you mentioned. So if in the absence of being able to do that, do you have any tips to kind of help cope?

Darwin: Yeah. It’s interesting that when we are feeling extreme distress, we look for quite, I don’t want to say extreme, but we look for very explicit changes. Like we’re inside. We want to go outside. Actually any small changes can make a big difference. One of the things that we advise our patients who are very anxious because of their worries is we ask them to check their thinking every so often and make them more aware that they are worrying. So very basic thing is, ask yourself, what are you thinking about? Is what you’re thinking about making you feel more or less anxious? Is what you’re thinking about helpful? Do a little audit on your current thought process. If it doesn’t make you feel better or in other words it’s depleting you, then you need to take a step back, stop and try and limit the amount of time you spend thinking negatively or worrying. When you ask people, it’s really surprising, but when you ask people do they ever try to stop worrying, people very rarely, consciously try to stop worrying. They only stop worrying when they have evidence that what they’re worrying about is no longer around or they fall asleep, or they’re distracted by something else. Very rarely do people intentionally stop or consciously stop. So incorporating that kind of awareness and stopping yourself from worrying is a very simple thing to do. That doesn’t require you to go outside and put yourself at risk. But if you can be more aware, in tune with your own mental processes, that would be a huge, huge help because your mind goes places that you don’t realize is causing you a lot of damage. And you want to keep it away from those dangerous places.

Martin: Definitely. And I want to switch gears now when you said that we’re not so good with dealing with uncertainty, or not having control. As members of the Church Of Christ that’s kind of ingrained in us, knowing that not everything is in our control, and that the world is full of uncertainty. Why, as members of the Church Of Christ, are we more, I guess the advantage is that we’re a little bit more mentally prepared, mentally equipped that this situation isn’t necessarily gonna have such negative repercussions to our mental state because of the faith that has been ingrained in us?

Darwin: Yeah. I completely agree that members of the Church Of Christ are more mentally prepared. And one of the things that I always remember is that, especially now in these challenging times, is that you’re not to rely on your own abilities. That was always ingrained in me growing up not to rely on your own abilities. Your human abilities are limited and we should put our trust in God. For someone who has grown up trusting their abilities, that’s very difficult. Or this idea that human beings, scientists, and, all these very clever people can find a way, letting go of that idea that we can do something about it is very, very difficult. But I think for members of the Church, that’s ingrained in us. So I think that that’s a very good foundation for dealing with what we’re going through now. Trusting, having that trust in God, despite what’s going on; that solid foundation. For a lot of people who don’t have that, that’s a frightening place to be. Whereas for us, it’s we have an anchor. We’re grounded. There’s this solid rock that is immovable that we can just anchor ourselves to and we’re good. There’s nothing that can move us or harm us.

Martin: And how, mentally speaking, how invaluable is that to have that anchor?

Darwin: That is, I think the bedrock. That’s the foundation of keeping yourself sane in a really uncertain situation. You just look at the analogy. If you don’t have an anchor, if you’re not tied to anything, you’re just basically drifting. You’re just drifting at sea with no direction. And that’s a really scary place, mentally, whereas here, you don’t need to keep checking. You don’t need to keep doing unreasonable irrational things because you know that whichever way things go, you’ll be okay. That relieves you of anxiety. Then if you’re relieved of anxiety and fear, it’s unlikely that you’ll get caught in that vicious trap, that vicious cycle of irrational behavior, because you don’t need to.

Martin: Right. What’s the one piece of advice for any of our listeners right now who are going through this, who may have relatives, family members on the front line worrying about them, isolated at home with nobody to talk to, worried about themselves. Is there anything that you can give to reassure them that we’ll get through this okay, together?

Darwin: Yeah, I think it comes back to something that you mentioned earlier about realizing how limited we are as individuals, and not trying to, not trying to solve this situation and not trying to go for short term solutions to make yourself feel better. Bring all those anxieties to God and accept that we are not in control, that it’s God who is in control of this situation and that we leave all our worries and cares to God, which will then liberate us and free us to then focus on what we need to do. That’s useful. That’s nourishing to all the more and connect to our faith and what we do as members of the Church Of Christ. To pray more. To attend the worship service, even though it’s in our own homes. To make sure that we try to make the environment in which we worship as sacred and as holy as possible. To, to really immerse ourselves in what we do as, as members of the Church. Because this is a real challenge to our faith now. And for a lot of us, this will really help us, I believe, that this is a good opportunity to really prove how much we do trust in God. And the only way you can do that is by accepting our limitations and trusting that God will bring us through this.

[Music Transition]

Martin: That was Dr. Darwin Buyson. Now joining us is minister of the gospel, Bro. Donald Pinnock. Bro. Donald, Dr. Darwin mentioned that members of the Church Of Christ deal with bad situations differently. For our listeners who are not members of the Church Of Christ, what does that mean?

Bro. Donald: Well, members of the Church Of Christ do not place their trust nor hope in their own ability or even that of their fellow-man, like what some people are doing. Rather they follow what the Bible teaches, for example we can read in Proverbs 3:5-6 this;

Trust in the LORD with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding. Seek his will in all you do, and he will direct your paths.

[Proverbs 3:5-6 New Living Translation]

Man’s understanding and ability, as we know, is limited, and God is quite the opposite; He is all-knowing and unlimited in His ability. That is why the members of the Church Of Christ, they place their hope and trust in who will, as the Bible teaches, direct our paths.

Martin: And Bro. Donald, how are members of the Church Of Christ better mentally equipped to handle challenges?

Bro. Donald: Well it’s not because we consider ourselves more intelligent or capable than others. But rather we follow, and believe in, what the Bible teaches. Philippians 4:6-7 makes known;

Don’t worry about anything; instead, pray about everything; tell God your needs and don’t forget to thank him for his answers. If you do this you will experience God’s peace, which is far more wonderful than the human mind can understand. His peace will keep your thoughts and your hearts quiet and at rest as you trust in Christ Jesus.

[Philippians 4:6-7 The Living Bible]

We should notice that God grants us the inner peace that we need, especially during times like this, so that we do not fall into despair or desperation.

Martin: Now, what have members of the Church Of Christ been doing during lockdown, and how has that helped them?

Bro. Donald: Well, just like so many people, Martin, we have found ourselves with time to focus on certain aspects of life that perhaps were neglected in one way or another due to focusing on that which is more important in the sense of earning a living, and for the students, when it came to pursuing their education. But now, we all find more time to, for example exercise, when it comes to enhancing our family bonds, and even pursuing hobbies. But what is a staple in the life of Church Of Christ members, before and even during the lockdown restrictions is none other than the worship of God. Church Of Christ members have been worshipping God, primarily via video conferencing technology. The importance of the worship service cannot be overstated as we can glean from the following citation:

How happy are the people who worship you with songs, who live in the light of your kindness! Because of you they rejoice all day long, and they praise you for your goodness. You give us great victories; in your love you make us triumphant.

[Psalms 89:15-17 Today’s English Version]

That, by the way, we just read Psalms 89:15-17. Worshipping God gives us the joy or happiness that we need, even in the midst of this pandemic. During the worship service, we are able to sing hymns of praises. It is also during the worship service when we can best pray unto God.

Martin: And how effective can prayer be in our lives? Maybe those who are listening, they’re worried about what’s happening out there. Can prayer really make a difference?

Bro. Donald: Yes it can, Martin. We believe in what the Bible teaches about what God is prepared to do when we call or pray to Him. Psalms 91:15-16 states this:

“When they call to me, I will answer them; when they are in trouble, I will be with them. I will rescue them and honor them. I will reward them with long life; I will save them.”

[Psalms 91:15-16 Today’s English Version]

We should notice that God is prepared not only to hear but also to answer the prayers of His servants. And how is it that He will answer? Well, He says that He would be with us, He would rescue us, He would reward us with long life, and save us. What more could we ask for?

Martin: Definitely, Bro. Donald. It’s kind of freeing to know that God is there and He is controlling so much of what is good for us. So, how is knowing that God is in control of our lives help us?

Bro. Donald: Well for us members of the Church Of Christ, it gives us assurance and comfort. Because we know we can depend on God to help us at all times, since He Himself promises the following in Jeremiah 29:11;

“For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.”

[Jeremiah 29:11 New International Version]

This is why we rely completely on what God can do for us. We trust wholeheartedly in His promises. We do our part, of course, such as following the guidelines implemented by government officials during this pandemic. But we have the most important layer of security. We have the Almighty God to keep us safe, and to grant us a successful future.

Martin: We want to thank you all for joining us. First of all thank you Bro. Donald, for that amazing and enlightening spiritual guidance. Thank you to Dr. Darwin who is in the UK, for his expert advice. And thank you to all of our listeners. Please continue to follow our hashtag on our Instagram, #HeartAndSoulConversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & Soul. Make sure to subscribe to Heart & Soul wherever you get your podcasts at. And you can watch some of Heart & Soul on our INCMEDIA app, which you can download now on any of your streaming platforms, whether it’s android, apple tv, roku, or amazon fire stick. That’s it from us today, hope we were able to help, hope we were able to connect, and hope you’ll join us next time, ready to listen with all your Heart And Soul. Be safe and take care.

Love in the Time of Coronavirus

Are meaningful connections possible while physical distancing?

Heart & Soul tips for the age of lockdowns.

Our new normal of lockdowns and shelter in place has many of us saying, “There goes my social life.’’ Many of my single friends are also saying, “There goes my love life.” It’s understandable that government measures to slow the spread of this year’s coronavirus may feel like a total roadblock to “finding the one.” But are meaningful connections really on hold with the current state of the world?

To answer this question, I spoke to people in thriving relationships even though they have spent more time apart than together. They have excelled in physical distancing before it was even a thing. These are people in LDR or long-distance relationships. These are the things that I gathered from my conversations with them, and what they had to say.

Who are my prospects?

Just because we are at home and mostly on our electronic devices does not rule out making new human connections. But you may be asking the question, “Who do I connect with?’’ Remember that time when we went out of our house and attended gatherings without the fear of contracting a virus? I’ll give you a minute. Back in those days, we met people. We were introduced to people. I’m sure you met someone that piqued your interest.

Someone you met at a Church activity
Someone you met through your friends
Someone you met through your family

Well, what are you waiting for? Go find them on social media. Don’t be above a direct message, but just remember to be respectful! First impressions last, even on social media. While we are on lockdown, go and make friends!

Myra sent Facebook friend invites to people she met at a Church event. One of these new Facebook friends messaged her directly. Fast-forward to their 10-year wedding anniversary this year. (See Myra’s full story and answered prayer.)

Getting to know you…from afar

So you have made social media contact with a potential significant other—now what? It’s not that much different from the time before this coronavirus. Get to know each other with some great conversations.

RJ from California met someone from Washington at a Church activity. They started with text conversations. Then the conversations moved to phone calls and then to web calls. Now, RJ and his text buddy are planning for a wedding. His story proves you can still get to know someone while being safe at home.

There’s an app for that

Now that you’ve gotten to know someone better. What is there to do in a long-distance relationship? Erica shared that she and her then long-distance boyfriend would have dinner and a movie though being miles and miles apart. He would order her favorite pizza and they would both watch a movie together while on a web call, making sure to press play at the same time. They have now been married for a hundred days and counting.

There are a lot of applications that can help us bridge the distance and make long-distance easier from free internet web calls. Here are the ones I use:

Facetime
Google Duo
Kast formerly Rabbit
Facebook Messenger
Viber
WhatsApp

The silver lining

Getting to know someone from afar has many positives:

Focus on chemistry and personality
Less intimidating
Prioritizing you and your goals
Easier on your budget

Janelle from Washington explains, “You get to know if someone likes you for who you are. You get to know their personality. You get to learn if there is chemistry. It’s not just about physically seeing someone all the time.’’

She also says long-distance relationships are great for people who feel they may not have a lot of time. Instead of feeling pressured to spend your every waking moment with a significant other, “You get to stay on track with your busy schedule and still have a relationship.”

A long-distance relationship is also easier on your budget. Since your significant other is not available to hang out every week, you can save up for nice presents to send through the mail. You can also save up for when you can see each other…in person.

Be Patient

If you have found someone that you have good chemistry with, finds your meme choices funny and shares the same values and priorities, congratulations! If the texts aren’t as regular as you wish, don’t lose hope. Your new friend may be experiencing stress at work, trying to find work, or dealing with sickness in the family. We all have to be more patient since everyone in one way or another is dealing with this pandemic.

Don’t do it alone

These Christians in long-distance relationships agree that it is not for everyone, it does get difficult, but they recommend it. They also credit the success of their relationship to God. They all trust that He would guide them.

Erica said, “Through late-night fights with loneliness, we would pray and trusted that God gave us this blessing. We took care of our blessing (our relationship) with the faith we have.’’

RJ said, “Having a set devotional prayer helps in the relationship, even though we are far away from each other. We are united in praying for each other. Together, we ask God to help us.’’

For those asking, “Do long-distance relationships work?” or for those who are wary of starting a long-distance relationship, Myra replies, “They need to ask themselves what’s the difference? You get to know each other. You know what you are looking for. If you are being honest with each other and if God is with you, what do you have to be afraid of?”’

When this lockdown is over, hopefully, you will have made new friends and connections without leaving your house. True friendship is the foundation of a strong romantic relationship. So, go ahead, check in with your family, your friends, and your friends-to-be.

Stay tuned to @incmedianews on social media and follow #HeartandSoulConversations to hear more stories about individuals coping with Covid-19.

Christine Jan Afenir is a staff writer, producer, and editor. She is also a long-distance relationship graduate and is now living in Australia with her husband. She also writes to people searching for the truth via incmedia.org/study-with-us/.

How to Deal When Friends Have Different Faith

Do conversations about faith and religion have to be awkward? Is it possible to respectfully agree to disagree over something as important as salvation?

Show/Hide Transcript

Martin Zerrudo: Tell me if this has happened to you before. You’re at work, at school, or maybe even at home, and the topic of religion comes up. How does it make you feel? Do you freeze and nod along to everything that they’re saying? Or do you let them know just how different your religious views are?

It can lead to some awkward situations, especially when it’s with a loved one or friend, which is why sometimes people find it easier to avoid the conversation altogether. But should we avoid it? Is it possible to agree to disagree over something as important as salvation? Let’s have a Heart and Soul conversation.

[Show open]

Martin: You’re listening to Heart and Soul, a podcast from The Iglesia Ni Cristo, Church Of Christ. I’m your host Martin Zerrudo and I’ll be interviewing young adults from across the world who are living Christian lives but are also dealing with real world problems. This is Heart and Soul.

Today we’ll be talking about how to handle conversations with our friends or loved ones who have different religious views than ours. Our first guest today is Alejandro from Montclair, California. Alejandro is 22 years old, single, and is a college student studying law enforcement.

He’s a former Catholic and recently joined the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Church Of Christ in 2017. He’s here today to talk to us about the conversations he’s had with a friend that actually led him to find the true Church and the difficult conversations he now has and tries to have with his own brother, now that he’s found the truth and is trying to share his faith. Hello, Alejandro, how are you today?

Alejandro Pena: Hello, Brother Martin. I’m pretty good right now. Weather is great. Enjoying life.

Martin: Thank you very much. So, you said weather’s great over there.

Alejandro: Yeah, pretty good.

Martin: Not too cold, I’m sure. And our second guest today is Mark. Mark is from Toronto, Canada right here. He’s actually sitting right in front of me. Mark is 30 years old, single, and works full time at INC Media Services. He actually sits right behind me in our office and he’s also an established wedding photographer and loves to work out with friends and eat out with friends, too, that is very much true.

He’s here to talk about his experiences in sharing his faith and what happened when one of his good friends actually decided to sign up for Bible studies, but unexpectedly changed their mind. Hello, Mark, how are you today?

Mark Diaz: Hey, Martin, how’s it going?

Martin: Doing well doing well. Alright, so our topic for today is about the difficulty and differences we encounter when talking to our friends or loved ones about religion. Now when talking about our religious differences, does every conversation have to end up with someone being right or wrong? Is it okay to respectfully agree to disagree without feeling like you’ve given up?

Well, we’ve actually asked our listeners on Instagram using our hashtag, #heartandsoulconversations. And we asked them when they’re confronted with conflict, how would they handle it? Will they fight or will they flight? And here’s what some of them had to say.

Kristine: If I cherish the relationship, I always try to address the conflict, even if that makes it uncomfortable at times.However, my silence is a clear sign that I do not care. And if I receive that I read it the same way.

Martin: So that was Kristine from the United States. Up next, we have John Kevin from Switzerland. And this is what he had to say.

John Kevin: Depends if I think something good and useful can result from it. If I don’t really care about the reason of the fight, or if the person is really closed minded, and it’s useless to try and argue, then I would just avoid it.

Martin: So again, that’s John Kevin, and lastly, we have Iris from Paris, France, and this is what she had to say.

Iris: It really depends on their situation, if it’s worth fighting for or not, because on the moment, sometimes it’s really hard to control your feelings or your emotions.

Martin: So again, that’s Iris. Listening to our responses it’s clear that it’s not an easy conversation to have when you hear those experiences from other people around the world. Alejandro, how does that make you feel when you hear their sentiments about when they’re engaging those kinds of conversations.

Alejandro: You kind of have to be careful what you’re going to say to those people. Because there’s many emotions going on. So, you’re going to have to tiptoe to get your point across, but even then, it can still eat up the conversation and cause you to have problems with that person, maybe.

Martin: Is it awkward? Does it feel awkward? Would you rather not have those kinds of conversations about faith?

Alejandro: I actually would rather have the conversation. But of course, I would try to do it in a place where it’s more appropriate.

Martin: Right, right. And Mark, you know, when you hear people who say, the conversations kind of going south, I’d rather just avoid it, and I don’t want to deal with it. Can you relate to that?

Mark: I guess, to me, it just really depends who I’m having a conversation with. I know it might not be a factor, but it could be depending on their age, their maturity level, if that’s the topic that they’re willing to have and be open about. Because I know sometimes when we’re a little bit younger, we’re just afraid of what everyone thinks about us, right? And the whole idea of being vulnerable in a faith aspect, not everyone gets.

Martin: Or wants to do…

Mark: Or wants to do, exactly. And I know that for us to growing up in the Church and having friends who don’t understand what that is, for them it’s kind of, just, it’s foreign right? So, for someone like us to express that, that side of our life, I can understand why people are afraid because they don’t want these other people to think that we’re this group of people.

Martin: That’s different.

Mark: That’s different. Exactly.

Martin: Right, right. And speaking about that, because you grew up for most of your life in the Church. For Alejandro, what religion did you grow up in? And what was that like Alejandro, the teachings as a kid, what were those teachings like? What made sense to you? What didn’t make sense to you?

Alejandro: My parents have been Catholic before I was born. I was baptized in it when I was an infant. But years later, my older brother introduced my parents to a Christian church. It was a denomination. We’re going from one church to another when things just didn’t seem right. I remember that the leader of the church was married and he divorced her to marry a younger one. It just didn’t seem right. There was also a time in the same church where one of the pastor’s married a couple, and the groom was drunk.

Martin: The groom was drunk?

Alejandro: Yeah, like literally drunk.

Mark: Oh my gosh.

Martin: In front of everybody who, in the ceremony?

Alejandro: Yes, he was at the front with his wife.

Mark: That’s crazy.

Alejandro: And then after the ceremony had ended, he went around to where we’re eating at. And really, he just didn’t have that sober way to walk.

Martin: And how old were you when you were seeing all this crazy church stuff?

Alejandro: I was already 17 or 16?

Martin: Wow.

Alejandro: Honestly, I kept going. But I told my mom after. Look, I went to church, this is what happened. And even she was thinking about, why are we going to that church then? If this stuff is happening.

Martin: Right, right. It just didn’t feel right going back?

Alejandro: It didn’t feel right. Now after some time, there was nothing there for me to keep going for.

Martin: So, after that experience, did you ever try and look for another church?

Alejandro: No, actually I stopped after some time before I was invited to the church I stopped going there. And going thought was I’ll try to look for God my way. Self teach myself what the Bible try to learn what God wants me to do. And then from there just live my life like that. Not go to church anymore but still obey Him.

Martin: Right. How did you go from trying to teach yourself through the Bible and then eventually learning about the Church Of Christ?

Alejandro: So, since that was my thought, to just self teach myself, my friend Lanuelle he contacted me through Facebook. I was posting verses of the Bible there. He messaged me, ‘Bro you know, I’m gonna just tell you straight forward. I want to invite you to Church, can you go?’ And so by that time since I wasn’t going to another church, I just said, ‘Yeah, sure. When?’ So, he said ‘oh, let’s do this Monday.’

Martin: Wow.

Alejandro: After work, I get home and he picks me up with his brother, and then for sure we head to Church. I remember the lesson was about the love of the Brotherhood. It made total sense to me from that point, but my main concern was about salvation.

Martin: I see.

Alejandro: I wanted to know, what did I have to do to be saved?

Martin: Now before all this, had you and Lanuelle already been friends? Or did he just randomly add you on Facebook and said, hey, man, you want to come to my church?

Alejandro: No, we were friends in high school.

Martin: I see, I see. And had religion ever come up in your conversations?

Alejandro: Yeah, they came up. Sometimes during lunchtime. There was this other guy with us. He believed in the Trinity. And Lanuelle would talk to him about it to like, no, that doesn’t exist. Or there’s just one God.

Martin: Mark in high school did religion ever come up in conversation in the cafeteria?

Mark: Oh, many times, actually. Because there were a lot of us in my previous locale that went to school together in high school. So, our mix of friends, were our Church friends and then we had our friends just from school, but we all sat together. So, everyone would always ask us how do you guys know each other? How are you guys so close? And we would always just tell them we grew up at Church together. They asked all what church do you go to? And we say, oh, the Church Of Christ. And then from there, they’d be like, oh, what do you guys believe in? And we would tell them that we’re Christian, and we follow what’s taught to us in the Bible. And usually it would drop really quickly because after that, after we would mention the Bible, they’d be like, “Oh that’s cool.” And then they go on to the next topic. But then there would also be times when we would invite them to Evangelical Missions. And then that’s where they would learn a little bit more about us. So that’s usually how it went around for us.

Martin: For myself, actually, in high school, also a lot of members of the Church Of Christ in the same high school that I went to. But it was very cliquey, not that we wanted to separate ourselves, but the sections of the school and the cafeteria were split up. But you know, we all lived harmoniously in the four years in high school. Alejandro, what made you decide you know what, this is the Church that I wanted to join?

Alejandro: Actually, I started seeing how people conducted themselves more inside the worship service.

Martin: Wow. What was different?

Alejandro: The worship service was very calm. It wasn’t yelling, or jumping, or people babbling stuff out of their mouth. It was all done in order and I’ve never seen before. That’s something that really caught my attention.

Martin: Right. So you eventually joined the Church. And we now get to the heart of the topic where you’ve now been able to actually share your faith with your parents. And I believe your sister, right? And they’ve joined the Church Of Christ as well?

Alejandro: Yes.

Martin: But your brother is a different story. Tell us about your brother, your relationship with him.

Alejandro: So my brother he would try to encourage me, to pray to God, but I’m going here to the Church Of Christ. I’ve noticed that he’s actually more just trying to attack more towards us. For lack of a better word.

Martin: You mean, he’s not too fond of you being a member of the Church Of Christ you mean? Like your discussions about faith was more civil before, but now that you’re a part of the Church it’s not so civil?

Alejandro: Yes.

Martin: I see.

Alejandro: It’s something that I’ve never seen before, even when we were going to the other denominations.

Martin: Right, right. Is he your older brother?

Alejandro: Right now, he’s the oldest one that I have here close.

Martin: I see, I see. Would you consider your relationship with this brother close?

Alejandro: Not too close. When we have topics of religion and stuff, I still try to invite him to Church.

Martin: Tell us about a time Alejandro, where you’ve had a conversation with your brother about religion, that didn’t go so well.

Alejandro: So, one day my parents and I got back from Church. I don’t remember too well, exactly. But I think he did call me. And these were the early days of us being members of the Church, and my parents as well. So, we started getting into a debate about the Church. He kept on telling me that God is not looking for you to be in the Church, he just wants you to obey Him. And so that’s when I told him, well, it’s in the Bible that we have to go to Church. So, by going to Church we are obeying God. So, I would quote these verses from the Bible to him. But he would just keep cutting me off. And that got me frustrated to even keep trying to talk to him about it.

Martin: Right now your conversations with your parents and your sister and trying to explain to them why they should join the Church Of Christ. How did they differ from this kind of conversation with your brother?

Alejandro: In regards with my mom?

Martin: Yeah.

Alejandro: I came back from a Bible Study, at 10 at night because I had some questions I wanted to ask the minister. And so, I got home. My mom was still awake, and I explained to her look, this is right here in the Bible. Jesus Christ is not God. And these are all the verses that lead to that point, that Jesus Christ is not God.

Martin: Yeah.

Alejandro: That night she went to sleep mad, but after some time that I kept going to Church, she just actually started accepting the fact that yeah, it’s in the Bible. I can’t deny that.

Martin: Right.

Alejandro: If this is what I believe in, I can’t deny it. So, she started going. Coming with me to Church. And then my mom, little by little started pulling my dad as well. And then he started going to Church as well.

Martin: Wow.

Alejandro: Which is something that he hasn’t done in a long time. And that really, that really got me happy that he started going to Church as well. So, once a mom and dad started coming with me to church, that’s when I approached my sister.

Martin: How did she take it?

Alejandro: The way it happened was she invited us to her church. We weren’t baptized yet. We went to her church. And I try to note down as much verses as I can, because I would note down the verses that the minister would give. And I didn’t get as much, and his topic was just bouncing from one to another. And then there was some things that he would say that was contrary to what the Church Of Christ teaches. And so, after the worship service at her church, I explained to her, look, this is what your pastor said, and this is what the Bible says. Now, what your pastor says, does it coincide with what the Bible says? And she would say, no, it does not. It doesn’t make sense. So, I say, okay, I went to your church. Now, I’m inviting you to mine. And that’s when she started coming to the Church Of Christ.

Martin: Right. You know, I myself, I wasn’t born in the Church. And I remember we were raised Catholic and Baptist, I believe. And I just remember going to church as a kid in those churches or those religions and it was just chaos. Kids running around, adult’s kind of shouting or yelling, sometimes clapping. And in my head, okay, I guess this is what worship is supposed to be like.

But it really didn’t make sense to me. And then eventually when my mom brought me and my older brother to the Church Of Christ, just in the Children’s Worship Service, I said, wow, this is so different from the Sunday school that I used to go to where everybody’s just running around. And then the adult worship service was super solemn. And it was such a new thing for me. And I was 11-10 years old, wow, this is actually what a Worship Service is supposed to be like. So, I can definitely see where you’re coming from. But knowing that your brother did not take to what you were talking about the way that your parents did, the way that your sister did, how did that make you feel that he wasn’t seeing the things that your other family members were able to see?

Alejandro: It would get me mad. Sometimes I think that it’s probably just his stubbornness.

Martin: Right.

Alejandro: Or his ego, that blinds him to not want to come to the Church Of Christ. And so, if that’s the case, then I can’t do much there. That’s something that he just has to deal with.

Martin: But what made you so angry? What was it that you needed him to understand? What was the urgency there?

Alejandro: My urgency for him, it really is regarding salvation.

Martin: You want him to be saved, and you’re worried that he wouldn’t be?

Martin: Yes. I’d like to go to an article now from the Reno Gazette Journal. And they actually pose this question, on talking about having nonreligious friends or friends who have different religion than we do. And it says if our religion is the only right way, why should we be friendly with someone who is surely going to hell? How can we reconcile when we know that our friends’ worship is to a false god? As friends is it not our duty to bring him or her to the right path?

And so, the journal is asking this question that if we have friends or family members who are not believing in the things that we believe in, and we know, and we believe that what we’re doing will lead us to salvation, shouldn’t we try anything and everything to make sure that our friends and our family members find the truth? Because, like the journal said, one person is going to go to hell and one person is going to go to heaven. It’s a very uncomfortable prospect to pose to somebody who either isn’t religious or believes in another religion where they think they’re the ones that are going to be saved.

And now I want to bring Mark into the conversation. Mark, you’re a member of the Church Of Christ. You were born and raised in the Church. I’m sure you’ve had many opportunities to share your faith with a lot of different people. One person in particular your friend Andre, tell us about how you guys met how you’re eventually able to invite him to Worship Service.

Mark: So Andre, and I, we met through kickboxing. And I was fairly new to the activity. And usually in the classes, you partner up with someone, and so we were partners, and you know, he was just asking where I was from what I do for a living. And then when I mentioned the Church, he was like, oh, I do know some brethren from your Church. So, he actually invited me out for dinner one time and he was he said, maybe we should grab a bite sometime after working out or something. So, I told him, yeah, absolutely. So that time we did end up going out to eat. He was the one that actually asked all the questions, and I didn’t even bring it up at all, other than the fact that I work for the Church now.

Martin: What were some of the questions that he had?

Mark: He just said, ‘Oh, when do you go to Church?’. And I told them I usually attend on a Thursday early morning on a Wednesday night. On the weekend, either Saturday or Sunday. He said “Oh, so you go twice a week.” And I said, “Yes, there’s a midweek service and we have a weekend service.” And then he just straight up asked, “Would it be okay if I came with you sometime?”

Martin: Oh, wow.

Mark: And I said, “Absolutely.” I asked him too, “What faith did you grow up in? Where do you come from?” And he told me that he grew up his family’s Catholic, and that that’s what they grew up in. But he told me that they don’t always go to church together, it’s just depending on their work schedules. But at that time, too, he hadn’t attended in a very long time. And I asked him, you know “What do you believe in? What’s your faith?” And he told me that “You know, I I’d like to think that all good people will go to heaven. You do good to those who need it and it’ll come back to you.” So, I said “Yeah, you know, whenever you do want to come, the door is open.” So, he asked me “Okay, when is the next time you’re going to go to Church?” I said, “Actually, I’m going to Church tomorrow morning.” And he said, “Is it okay if I came with you?”

Martin: Wow.

Mark: And I said “Just letting you know, this is at 5:30 A.M. in the morning. When people are usually sleeping.”

Martin: Right.

Mark: “I’m not forcing you. And I know that’s a very early time to commit too. So, if you wanted to go to another time, absolutely.” And he said, “No, I want to go with you in the morning.” So, we did.

Martin: What was his reaction to the worship service?

Mark: Well, his first reaction after service was, “Wow, I didn’t know there were actually people that woke up at that time to go to Church in the morning.”

Martin: Right? It’s probably packed.

Mark: It’s fairly full. I remember the worship service at that time, it was about Thanksgiving.

Martin: Right, right, giving thanks.

Mark: Giving things and remembering our blessings throughout the year.

Martin: Oh that’s a great lesson.

Mark: And bringing it all back to God. So, I remember sitting there and I thought, wow, this is a really, really good lesson. Afterwards I asked him, “What did you think?” And he, the same thing as Alejandro said, he mentioned that it was very solemn. It was very peaceful. He actually for a moment was like, “I never realized what it felt like to just sit with your thoughts in a place where it was quiet. And I could just hear myself.”

Martin: Right. And that’s the great thing, just pause right there. For our listeners who maybe are not members of the Church Of Christ, who have never been able to experience, worshiping God in a house of worship of the Church Of Christ. Say the worship services at 6 o’clock at night. Doors are open roughly around half hour before. And you really have an opportunity to sit in the sanctuary, like Andre said, “with your thoughts to just meditate.”

A lot of studies out there that says, the mindfulness aspect of it, the mental benefits of just being able to reflect peacefully and affirm yourself positively is so beneficial in all aspects. In your work, in your mental health, in everything. And so being able to do that, like you said, twice a week. You get to worship God, you get to pray and you get to sit there in your thoughts and meditate. So, when did he decide he wanted to join the Church?

Mark: He didn’t decide that he wanted to join the Church. But he did decide that he wanted to learn about the Church.

Martin: Oh, I see.

Mark: From the beginning I told him you know, “Whatever questions you have, or if there’s any time that you need some clarification on something, we can always talk to the minister.” And that led him to coming to one of the evangelical missions. And it was after that, that first one that he attended that he said that I’d like to learn more about your Church. “Can I sign up for Bible studies?”

Martin: Right. Now when we say sign up for Bible studies, that just means for those who aren’t members of the Church, that it’s 28 lessons. Completely free, with the minister or worker of the local congregation that’s nearest to you. Which I’m sure they did for Andre.

Mark: Yes.

Martin: Works around your schedule on when you’re able to attend the Bible studies. And at the end of the 28 lessons it doesn’t mean that you automatically become a member of the Church Of Christ. It’s a really great way to continue your spiritual journey. How did that make you feel that your friend who you met at the gym, was so eager to learn about the Church? And then signed up for Bible studies.

Mark: I felt great. I’ve actually never experienced having a friend, thankfully a close friend now, interested on their own to know what we do in the Church and what the Church is all about.

Martin: Right.

Mark: So, for me to not even have to push anything on him, but just kind of be there with him and have him listen. It was nice to know that maybe God is using me as an instrument to let him at least learn about our faith.

Martin: Right. I remember, because we’re also good friends, you’d bring him to our hangouts. We’d all have dinner together, we’d hang out. He’d help us out with some of our shoots here in the studio. Really, really nice, great guy. Still, today we hang out sometimes. But then something happened. He changed his mind. What happened.

Mark: Halfway through the lessons, I want to say he maybe got through five or six lessons and he sent me a text message unexpectedly after one of the Bible studies. I had dropped him home. And then when I got home I had this really long text from Andre. And in his text, first he thanked me and he said, “I really appreciate our friendship and you’ve been so kind and bringing me to all the lessons and helping me whenever I needed it, and I’m so thankful to know that I have someone that is very faith driven.” And then near the middle of the text message he said, “unfortunately I’m gonna have to put a hold on learning about your Church, not because I disagree with it or I’m upset about anything but I don’t feel ready to keep going.” And he mentioned that a big part of it is that he felt like he was betraying his family who he actually did mention that he was going to church too, and there wasn’t any factor of them stopping him. They kind of just said, “whatever makes you happy, then we’re there for you.” But I think a part of him from what he was saying, he just said that he was abandoning I guess the roots of his family. So he said that he wasn’t ready to fully commit and he was hoping that we can all still be friends. “You’ve introduced me to a great pool of brethren and community that I never thought existed.”

Martin: Right, right.

Mark Diaz: He said “I hope that I can still hang out with you guys.” He said “If there’s another opportunity for me to want to learn or to continue on in learning” he said “I hope I can come back to your Church and I hope that this doesn’t end anything or change anything.” And I said “Oh absolutely not. The doors will always be open for you and the friendship and everyone that you’ve met continues. And it doesn’t make us think any less of you” because I think he was worried too that…

Martin: He’d be ostracized.

Mark: Exactly, for believing something else.

Martin: Alejandro I’d like to ask. This concept of betrayal; do you feel like your brother made you feel like you joined a different Church than what he was used to when he used to go to with you. You were able to get your parents to join the true Church, and then your sister. Do you feel like there’s that element of “you kind of betrayed what we used to have as a family because you converted everybody to a different Church than what we grew up in.”

Alejandro: Yeah, that could be a possibility too. He probably feels isolated from us, in a way. For that reason that could lead him to think that this is probably not the right Church.

Martin: And that’s a difficult thing right. It becomes, not just a difference of belief, but it comes very “your team versus my team.”

Alejandro: Yeah

Martin: Which is why I think some of our listeners, they kind of stray away from it. You can even hear from the social media comments was that “it’s not worth my time. I’m gonna share my faith but if I know it’s not going to go anywhere. If they already seem very adversarial than I’d rather not.” Thankfully for Mark, you were able to have a friend who was eager to learn; who, even though they were very much entrenched in their family’s faith, was willing to be open minded about it. But you know unfortunately not everybody is. Mark did you feel like you failed when he said he wasn’t gonna join or that he wasn’t ready to fully finish all the lessons yet?

Mark: I didn’t feel, I wasn’t discouraged. I think I was more hopeful. It wasn’t completely an end to something because at least in a way I was able to share something that’s been a part of my life.

Martin: Right

Mark: That’s huge to me. So no I don’t think I failed in that sense.

Martin: Actually my dad, who eventually became a member of the Church Of Christ after 20 plus years of having conversations similar to the conversations you have Alejandro with your brother, he very much criticized why we went to Church, why we spent so much time there, why we had to go to Church and not just be a good person and be saved. And again like your situation Alejandro, it was me, my brother and my mom. It was the three of us that were members of the Church Of Christ and he was not. So he very much also felt isolated.

I’m sure there was a level of betrayal there where we would always choose worshiping God over anything else. But the thing is like you Mark a no now is not a no forever. And despite maybe the difficult conversations you’ve had, Alejandro, the difficult conversations I’ve had with my dad and for any of our listeners who are members of the Church Of Christ, who have had multiple difficult conversations with people who we care about, who we wanted to share our faith with, it’s not a no forever. And like Mark said, don’t feel so discouraged that because it’s not happening right now that it won’t ever happen.

Mark: Exactly.

Martin: There’s still value, very much so in just being able to share our faith in those kind of conversations. Now, I’d like to play one more clip, and this is from Ian from the United Kingdom, and this is what he has to say about having conversations with those who have different religion.

Ian: When I’m speaking to someone about my faith, and they don’t agree, I try not to get too worked up about it. As a member of the Church Of Christ, it’s my duty to share my faith. And if someone has a different opinion, then I tried to have an open mind about it, just so I can avoid causing drama. At the end of the day, everyone is entitled to have their own opinions. But I know that once I try, then I’ve done my part.

Martin: Now I’d like to bring in Minister of the Gospel and show favorite of course brother Richie Juatco. Now, Brother Richie what spiritual advice would you give to our listeners who do find themselves in a similar situation. How do we share our faith, stand up for our faith without seeming like we’re judging others or as Ian would say causing drama? Is there comfort in knowing that even if they don’t see eye to eye in how we believe and how we will attain salvation that we can still respectfully agree to disagree knowing that we’ve done our part in sharing our faith?

Brother Richie: To respectfully disagree with someone, we always want to do it in a way to where what we’re merely doing is following what is written in the Bible. That’s why it’s interesting to hear the conversations, hear some of the experiences of Alejandro and Mark and even yourself Martin. There is a lot of work to put into it.

When you speak about your religion, when you speak about your faith. And it is also interesting to hear some that maybe say that they don’t want to put in that effort if they feel that it’s not going to go anywhere. Now, engaging in conversation regarding religion and faith is something that is not only encouraged for us, but rather instructed by the Lord Jesus Christ to those whom He recognizes as His disciples are those inside His Church. He’s the one that describes us in a particular way, as Christians and what our responsibility is. And because we want to be driven by our faith, I will read what is recorded here in Matthew chapter 5, 14 to 16. What is His instruction? What is it that He describes us as? Our Lord Jesus Christ says:

You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives a light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father in heaven.

[Matthew 5:14-16 NKJV]

Brother Richie: So, it’s not only encouraged. It’s not only something that we can do, an option. No, it’s an actual instruction. Our Lord Jesus Christ says “You are the light of the world, let your light shine.” And the best way for us to shine is to share our faith; to tell people what we’ve learned, to tell people the Biblical truths that we were able to hear. But in our sharing, we should not disregard the Bible’s instruction on how to conduct ourselves. Because it’s true, there might be some who, when they hear it, they might respond in all different ways. They might be angry as we heard in some of the experience of those that are on the panel. But what is it that we’re taught? How is it that we conduct ourselves? I’m going to read again, also what’s written because that is what is our guide. Here in First Peter chapter 2, the verses 17, it says:

Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor, the emperor.

[1 Peter 2:17 NIV]

Brother Richie: Now here we have a set of instructions, a set of guidelines and notice it says, show proper respect to everyone. So the term, everyone, includes even those that don’t agree with our beliefs. As I heard in Alejandro’s, when he explained about his friend Lanuelle, he was able to notice that even though people were not agreeing with what he was saying he was able to keep calm. He was able to still show respect. And that caught his attention. There might be others that get really frustrated, get really angry if somebody doesn’t agree with them, but the Bible makes clear we should show proper respect to everyone.

Now since we are discussing, so we want to show proper respect to everyone. Since what we are discussing in particular is dealing with friends that have a different faith than us, or even converting others to different religions, we need to understand how that’s done. How is conversion done or having faith or belief grow in someone, because if one doesn’t understand that it can lead to frustrations, it can lead to people maybe being angry with each other. If one shares their faith and the other person doesn’t believe or converts then they feel that they failed.

What is that process of having a belief grow in someone who who didn’t have it before, the true faith. I’ll read here from First Corinthians chapter 3, verses 6, Apostle Paul clarifies he says:

I planted the seed, Apollos watered the plant, but it was God who made the plan, grow.

[I Corinthians 3:6 Good News Translation]

Brother Richie: So to have that grow in somebody, it is really God, that does it. Everyone’s just doing their part. If someone shares their faith, they’ve done their part, right? If that person believes, if that person joins the Church Of Christ, that will be part of the entire process and it will be God Himself, that will make that grow in them. So we have Mark, where he shares his faith, and then ultimately at the end of his story he said that his friend did not convert or did not join the Church. He did his part. And who knows? Maybe that that seed that was planted in his mind, hopefully will grow down the line. But then he was able to at least do what was instructed to him. We know that if one is going to join, they’re going to join the faith, they’re going to join the Church, which the Bible makes clear Church Of Christ, or the body of our Lord Jesus Christ, we have to understand, how is it that one is able to even join the Church. Again, let’s go to what’s recorded for clarity. I’ll read here in 1 Corinthians 12, 18. It says:

Brother Richie: “But as it is, God arranged the members in the body, each one of them, as he chose.” [1 Corinthians 12:18 (English Standard Version)]

Brother Richie: So it really is, it’s God. It’s God that is going to call someone to have the true faith. It’s God that’s going to add them to join the Church. Therefore no one should get frustrated. No one should get too angry or even the other extreme, where someone says “I’m not going to put the effort in any way because you actually touched upon something when you said sometimes people don’t want to judge. So they’re going to not say anything. That’s actually the opposite because if you don’t say anything thinking, “Oh this person’s going to, nothing’s going to happen anyway.” Now you have judged. You’re the one that judges if that person is going to have the faith or not. Leave it to God.

How is it that you leave it to God? Just follow the instructions. What we do is we just do our part. We speak up. So we speak up we share our faith, and it will be God that ultimately converts people to have the proper faith. We just do our part. Now, there are times where beliefs, they’re going to contradict. That is the one thing that many people maybe have not observed. Everyone wants to do what’s right.

Mark in his story he said that his friends said “all good people will go to heaven.” That’s his belief. Okay then great, but who is good? What some people think is good is different from what other people think is good. So there will be, and we can see there’s a lot of different churches. They all believe that they’re doing what is right, but they’re all doing things that are different. They have different names, they have different beliefs, they have contradicting ways of worshipping God. So there is going to be teachings that are going to contrast, are going to contradict.

So in doing our part, should we be timid to tell the truth, if it is in stark contrast to what others presently believe. Or, a question that others have is should we join in what we know is already wrong just to help them come to the light? Well the Bible is clear regarding what our focus should be in shining as lights. I’ll read from Ephesians chapter 5 verses 10 to 11, it says:

Try to discover what the Lord wants of you having nothing to do with futile works of darkness, but exposing them by contrast. [Ephesians 5:10,11 Jerusalem Bible]

Brother Richie: So, like we said, when we do share our faith, if we’re trying to figure out what really is the truth, there are going to be times where we can avoid exposing what is false, by contrast of what is true. So the whole purpose is to do what God wants us to do. So we’re not just trying to please others. We’re not just trying to build relationships for any reason, but we’re actually trying to help others.

In Alejandro’s account, he shared, he learned something himself, and that is natural. When we learn something that we feel is valuable, we feel is important, of course we want to share it with others. From any level of value, it could be a great restaurant, could be a great movie, whatever, all the way to “This is the way that you’re going to be saved” you inherently want to share that with others. So, we can see he shared it with his parents. He shared it with his sister. They were able to realize this is good.

Now he shared it with his brother. His brother currently right now has not softened up to the idea of hearing but he’s still following. Alejandro’s following the teachings of God. That’s what we have to do. Leave that leave that to God.

So engaging in conversations regarding religion, faith, is something really that strengthens our own faith, because if we engage in conversation, and if we’re talking about it, then it reinforces what we have. And why is it that we should do that.This instruction, and I’ll read here in 1 Peter 3, 15. It says:

Be ready to speak up and tell anyone who asks why you’re living the way you are,

[1 Peter 3:15 The Message]

Brother Richie: The reason why we should be calm, the reason why we should not be frustrated, the reason why we should speak up is because we should know our faith. There are some that will get frustrated when we do engage in conversation with them, because they might not know their faith. They might know what they were taught, but the basis of it, they might. So that when we do talk about that, when we do speak about that, that can get frustrating to them. But we leave that to God. We do our part and we hope and pray that He will just as He has mercy on us, giving us the opportunity to actually know the truth written in the Bible, that they too will have a chance and they will have that best opportunity to answer His call.

Martin: Definitely thank you so much Brother Richie. And for our listeners who are eager to share their faith and are inspired of course by the verses that Brother Richie has read from the Bible, there are a lot of tools online that make sharing our faith and make those conversations that much more easier, that much more simpler. If you go to the website incmedia.org, right on the right side is a big red button that says questions.

One of the main reasons why sometimes people avoid having the conversation about different religions is they don’t always have the answer. Well tell them to go to incmedia.org, put in their question and then they’ll get a response and it’s totally open to whatever interests or questions you may have about faith, about spirituality, about teachings in the Bible; it’s all there for you. If they’d rather listen to a podcast, there’s this podcast, the Gods message podcast. If they want to find something about their family or their kids if you’re a little bit older, there’s Faith and Family, a lot of content that shows why we as members of the Church Of Christ live the way that we are and how we act as Christians in the Christian family unit.

If you have questions about depression about solving problems in their life that they’re trying to find the answers to, we have a show called The Solution. Everything that you find on incmedia.org is tailored to make that conversation that much easier. And it’s just more tools to Brother Richie’s verse that he read as the ones who are working on the field, there’s more tools that we use. You’re not just using your hands when you’re planting a seed, right? You have tools. You have other things that will help you to make sure that when it’s time for God to make it grow, that has been prepared the right way. And that website not only helps people understand our faith but also as Brother Richie said helps us in our faith to remind us why we ended up joining the Church in the first place.

Now before we close the episode I’d like to ask two final questions to Alejandro. Hopefully you’re able to continue to have those conversations with your brother. Maybe he’ll have a chance to hear this podcast right now if you send the episode to him. If he was listening right now Alejandro, what would you say to your brother?

Alejandro: I would tell him, “Bro this is my faith that I’ve learned and I’ve really have held on to, and I know this is something that has helped me for the better, in my life. And so that’s the reason I share it with you, because I do love you like my brother that you are, and if God wills, I hope you one day join the Church as well.”

Martin: Thank you Alejandro. And Mark, if Andre were to be listening right now, what would you say to him?

Mark: I’d say “I know that you are looking for peace, and that you want to live a happy life, but what if you can take that happiness to another level.”

Martin: So we want to thank everybody for joining us today. Thank you, Alejandro for sharing your story, your inspiring moments in your life, and the challenges as well, giving us a closer look into the conversations that you’ve had in your life. Thank you so much Alejandro.

Alejandro: Thanks Martin, it’s been good sharing my life experiences here.

Martin: It was a great conversation. Thank you Mark, for sharing your story as well.

Mark: Thanks for having me.

Martin: Thank you for joining us and for introducing us to your friend. Andre if you’re listening, door’s always open not only in the house of worship, but also in joining us whenever we go out. Thank you Brother Richie again. Most importantly, thank you so much for providing us and the listeners with spiritual guidance on how to navigate probably one of the hardest things that we have to face in life and in being able to be brave enough to shine as lights, to share our faith but confidently, and compassionately converse that with other people. Thank you so much Brother Richie.

Brother Richie: Oh, thank you, thank you for giving us a chance to join.

Martin: And for all of our listeners, please follow our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & soul. That’s it from us today. Depending on when you’re listening to this, hope you have a happy New Year. Hope we were able to help, hope you were able to connect and we hope you’ll join us next time, ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

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